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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#141

Post by bjornsing »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

So isn't the obvious solution to move the allocation strategy from lottery to "auction" (highest payed employees get their visas first)?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#142

Post by throwaway251 »

darkdreams wrote: post #62

Slightly off topic. My understanding is that for every H-1B application that is filed the US government takes a ACWIA fee that is supposed to be used for improving competitiveness of the American worker and providing scholarships. From https://www.uscis.gov/forms/h-and-l-filing-fees-form-i-129-p... "SEC. 414 Collection and use of H-1B nonimmigrant fees for scholarships for low-income math, engineering, and computer s…

Well - this is not off topic - this is exactly what the US government is not doing

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#143

Post by anjc »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #117
anjc wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the US too. It's the same all over Western Europe. What sticks in my craw even more is that, to legitimise the process of issuing more visas, companies and governments have to continually say "there aren't enough STEM and IT grads! Do STEM and IT everyone!" knowing full well that there wont be jobs for these kids at the end of it.

Anecdata: I'm in US. Three boys, all graduated Engineers. All have jobs, easy as pie. One had $30/hr part-time remote work during last year of college. Have to move to get the right job maybe, or take what you can find, but for various reasons they're all very happy. My Niece is in a field that's chronically low on qualified Engineers - she designs and installs automation in factories. So many facets including mechan…

Don't get me wrong, I know that some people have major success and I'm glad that they do (I don't think 'white privilege' has anything to do with it as you contend below, as I have as much anti-anecdata as yours which also involves white people).

The data is all out there with regards to the level of unemployment and underemployment amongst STEM and IT grads, the number of people who have to seek employment in alternative industries, and the level of stagnation of wages in the industry. It's not at a level which indicates systemic failures, but it's significant enough to raise questions.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#144

Post by forgotAgain »

A constant theme for support of H-1B's is that they supply the US with an irreplaceable resource for starting new technical companies.

Despite this I have not heard reference of any individual who came to this country on a H-1B visa to work for an Indian outsourcing company who later participated in a significant successful startup. Honest question, does anyone know an example of this having occurred?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#145

Post by ones_and_zeros »

Panini_Jones wrote: post #120
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? Wha…

This gets to the crux of the issue with the H1B system as it relates to age discrimination. Why are we hiring fresh grads on a "best and brightest" visa? If the college degree from a US institution made them the best and brightest, why wasn't a citizen in that classroom seat? If they are truly geniuses why are they paid at entry level wages?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#146

Post by 0xfeba »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Yup. I've said it before[1][2] and people just kept replying "Oh but we hire them for their talent, therefore everyone does."

I work at a run of the mill SaaS company. We have 60% H-1Bs devs here as contractors from a certain contracting company (more in QA). They live paycheck to paycheck. I get paid, literally, twice as much (I've seen the H-1B Labor Condition Applications for ones we hire directly--The contracting companies pay likely about as much but take some 20% of their salary).

We don't hire them because they are particularly talented. I've been on interview calls with ones from the contracting companies, all their resumes are the same [3]. They are just code monkeys. Our company does it to save costs, period. Upper management knows nothing of the mythical man-month.

The system is being rampantly abused.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13521791

[2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13525766

[3] - http://www.vocativ.com/money/business/theyll-sponsor-america...

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#148

Post by pinaceae »

yes, and it's filling shit jobs that no American CS grad wants to do.

who wants to do outsourced QA for Oracle? menial, mind numbing clicky work.

who wants to maintain monster codebases built 20 years ago for some internal bullshit system at a Fortune 500?

most of Software work by now is akin to facilities management. hence you give it to motivated foreigners, just like in farming, etc.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#149

Post by iamgopal »

forgotAgain wrote: post #144

A constant theme for support of H-1B's is that they supply the US with an irreplaceable resource for starting new technical companies. Despite this I have not heard reference of any individual who came to this country on a H-1B visa to work for an Indian outsourcing company who later participated in a significant successful startup. Honest question, does anyone know an example of this having occurred?

It can not as there are ample start up opportunities for talented individuals in india.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#150

Post by Eridrus »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Before you get all indignant, note that you're comparing a median and average, and for income distributions like these the average will skew higher. Also, Google, etc, also hire non software people from overseas, you can see them in the H-1B salary data, making less than software engineers.
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