Earlier quoted context omitted.
>(...)also its technically possible to get better sound quality than digital via high quality, high speed, vinyl and an all analog recording to stamping process -This, with all due respect, is a myth. Much as I love my LPs, by any objective criteria the CD (or any digital media) beats them handsomely. Dynamic range, frequency response, noise floor, channel separation - even on the best mastered, half-speed cut, heavy…
There is a special case: dbx discs needing a special, rare decoder seem to sound particularly good: https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=fPSbhZz2OYU
Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
141–150 of 156 posts
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
>(...)also its technically possible to get better sound quality than digital via high quality, high speed, vinyl and an all analog recording to stamping process -This, with all due respect, is a myth. Much as I love my LPs, by any objective criteria the CD (or any digital media) beats them handsomely. Dynamic range, frequency response, noise floor, channel separation - even on the best mastered, half-speed cut, heavy…
I listen to vinyl myself, and I also have some limited knowledge of the science involved. I don't claim to be any sort of an expert in acoustics but I do have a basic grounding in DSP from my undergraduate days as well as high-school physics to refer to ... I have to say I enjoy vinyl for a number of non-qualitative reasons. Nostalgia. Tactility. The cover art. The fact that the medium feels like it has more of a "wh…
Amps and speakers are the real limiting factors, not the recording medium. They distort very easily (and never read the distortion figures of amps - they're not anything like real world conditions). Mixing is done to make the speakers work well, not to be "accurate".
edit: When tracking and mixing records, I routinely put a high-pass filter on every single track, specifically to prevent subsonic rumble. I often low-pass tracks as well, to limit noise, hiss, and distortion artifacts. This is so routine that even many microphones have a built-in high-pass switch. In mixing, I might high-pass guitars as high as 300hz, throwing away whole octaves of low-frequency information. This is to keep it from conflicting with kick drums, bass guitar, and other instruments that need that space. Solo the guitar in the mix, and it sounds weird. In context, you can't hear the difference in the guitar, and the mix itself sounds better.
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#143This word gets thrown around a lot but, hipsters! As others have attested there is nothing good about tapes. There are very good reasons why vinyl has survived (You can manipulate it with your hand when djing, and see the music on it, also its technically possible to get better sound quality than digital via high quality, high speed, vinyl and an all analog recording to stamping process) But tapes, no, they are shit.…
As a form of expression it has no obligation to be convenient or accurate, and it's hard to deny that the medium ultimately is part of the expression.
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people like the vinyl "sound". What do you mean by your usage of "quality"? What was the "expensive looking box"? How was it connected to the amp? Where did the DA-conversion happen? What was the source for the FLAC? I'm sorry, but this is barely even anecdata.
Didn't mean to prove anything here. I mentioned myself that I can't prove the FLAC was up to par and there might be all sorts of biases at work, who knows. The "box" had the hard disks and DAC inside, don't know the correct term. Connection was with short, chunky cables. We switched back and forth using a switch on the amp without any delay. I wouldn't blame the hardware in this situation. I haven't listened to much…
This I agree fully with. However, this is also (IMHO) part of vinyl's challenge - the entry cost for getting blow-me-away-results is much, much higher than for a digital system.
Now, assuming we use the same speakers (Which, if anything, is the one link in the chain where one should put the most of one's budget!) and amps and are left only with the source part:
You can get an excellent DAC for a couple of hundred dollars. If you want something top-of-the-line, inarguably reference-grade, that'll set you back a couple of kilobucks. (There are lots of more expensive DACs; however, at $2k or thereabouts, the Benchmark DAC2 hardly leaves any room for improvement in other factors than user interface and bragging rights.)
As for source - with the DAC sorted, you can use just about anything. Laptop. Old CD-player with a digital output. Anything will do. Total cost (excluding amps/speakers) for a reference-grade system: $2,100 or so. For a system which gets you 99% of the way there - $300 or so. (Obviously, these are very rough ballpark figures, intended to stress the point more than anything else.)
So, how does the analog side of things look?
Good LP players cannot by their very nature be very cheap; there's simply too much precision mechanics about. So, let us say that a 'very good' LP player is the Linn LP12 with no upgrades. That alone appears to set you back in excess of $3k, luckily including what I assume to be a decent, though not stellar pickup.
Adding to that, you need a RIAA preamp; disregard the cheapest ones - look inside, and all you'll find is an op-amp, a voltage regulator and a simple second-order filter. Say, (I am just guessing here, having built my own RIAA preamp years ago) - $500-1,000 will get you up from the basic designs and into the realm of things which can do the LP12 justice. Grand total - $3,500-4,000.
So, twice the cost of the digital reference - and this is still a -by audiophile standards- very basic analog system with lots of room for improvement. Also, chances are the $300 digital system will run circles around it - even more so if you buy some cheap DSP plugins which can emulate the characteristics of LP playback, giving you an experience closer to what vinyl would sound like.
That being said, I fully understand the people who appreciate the tinkering potential of analog systems; you can mix and match accessories and components to a much larger degree than in digital systems, adjust various properties (needle weight; tracking force &c) all influencing the sound; however, when you do that (I do!) you are not necessarily doing it for the sake of faithful reproduction, but rather as a very expensive, very limited way of doing EQ. (Best investment I ever made to my hifi-system: A four-band parametric EQ unit. Sorry, all hardcore audiophiles.)
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I listen to vinyl myself, and I also have some limited knowledge of the science involved. I don't claim to be any sort of an expert in acoustics but I do have a basic grounding in DSP from my undergraduate days as well as high-school physics to refer to ... I have to say I enjoy vinyl for a number of non-qualitative reasons. Nostalgia. Tactility. The cover art. The fact that the medium feels like it has more of a "wh…
The "inaudible" low frequencies are absolutely removed during mixing, or by the mastering engineer. There's probably no content below 50hz on anything you listen to. Few speakers can reproduce such low sounds (and fewer still do it with any sort of fidelity, and fewer of those are in rooms that won't freak out at the low frequencies). But the amp and speaker use enormous power trying to reproduce them! It seriously i…
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "inaudible" low frequencies are absolutely removed during mixing, or by the mastering engineer. There's probably no content below 50hz on anything you listen to. Few speakers can reproduce such low sounds (and fewer still do it with any sort of fidelity, and fewer of those are in rooms that won't freak out at the low frequencies). But the amp and speaker use enormous power trying to reproduce them! It seriously i…
Is this a more modern practice, in the same vein as the whole compression thing or would it be something they've been doing all along? I always liked the idea of the "Naked Sound" though perhaps this hasn't ever been a thing ...
Mixing any sort of multitracked pop music is extremely artificial. Consider any record where an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar are roughly the same volume. In practice, you can't even hear an acoustic guitar next to a raging guitar amp! In the stereo field, things are panned hard left, hard right, or center (there's even a word for it - LCR. Off-center panning sounds weird). Radical eq alterations, compression, multi-miking techniques... heck, move a microphone an inch relative to an acoustic guitar, and it can sound completely different. I have started using two mics on acoustic guitars - one about a foot away, and the other six or more feet away, and blending them. The blend sounds better than either mic by itself. And then there are synths, drum machines, and other direct electronic instruments...
Yeah, "naked sound" in recording doesn't exist. I've been playing acoustic guitar for over 30 years, and play drums and sing and do a lot of live folk music. Recorded/amplified music sounds VERY different. And it should.
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#147This word gets thrown around a lot but, hipsters! As others have attested there is nothing good about tapes. There are very good reasons why vinyl has survived (You can manipulate it with your hand when djing, and see the music on it, also its technically possible to get better sound quality than digital via high quality, high speed, vinyl and an all analog recording to stamping process) But tapes, no, they are shit.…
Commercial prerecorded tapes were shit, OTOH, becayse they were always on cheap tape stock, with at best Dolby noise reduction, to maximise sales.
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this a more modern practice, in the same vein as the whole compression thing or would it be something they've been doing all along? I always liked the idea of the "Naked Sound" though perhaps this hasn't ever been a thing ...
No, it's always been the practice, since the 1950s at least. Microphones and media that could reproduce far more accurately than amps/speakers have been around since at least the 1940s. Modern mixing developed in the mid/late 1960s and into the 1970s. Mixing any sort of multitracked pop music is extremely artificial. Consider any record where an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar are roughly the same volume. In p…
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The dominance of digital and streaming services has stolen this experience from us, and we are fighting to get it back. I used to collect books. It was a big part of my life. Now I pretty much only buy books on Kindle. I almost sort-of miss buying books. But only in theory. In practice I much prefer having my current library in my pocket at all times. Same with music. I have my entire library on my hard drive, and I…
> I used to collect books. It was a big part of my life. I used to collect stamps, comics, books, CDs, video games. I believe it's was a compulsive behavior of mine. Then I had to move to another city and leave all of it behind, stored in my parents' house. Then I started collecting digital music to replace my physical library, and had tons of music I never listened to. One day my external drive crashed and I lost it…
I keep my music in my computer which I regularly back up to two different external drives in a rotating manner.
Not because I'm specifically worried about losing my music, but because I just do regular backups in case any of my drives fail and/or I finally get stung by a ransomware trojan (thus TWO external drives; they're never both plugged in at the same time).
Re: Music's weird cassette-tape revival is paying off
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always carry a 16Gb USB flash drive in my pocket. I can play music from it in both of my cars (USB ports), at most places I visit (plug it into a computer), and the music doesn't degrade with playback. Oh, and I could throw about 133 hours of high quality audio onto it and it would still be half empty. AND...my phone has plenty of room for another 8Gb of music, and to play that I just need to hit play; plugging it…
For starters, not everybody can afford that kinda stuff. The comment you're replying to even talks about how his car only has a tape player and a radio. This cassette revival is primarily happening with young people who are in college or have otherwise low paying jobs (or no jobs). A lot of young people have old used cars with cassette players. For people in bands, as well, putting out music on a cassette is the most…
Or you can spend $15 on an MP3 player (or pick one up at a thrift store for less). Considering tapes cost more than digital tracks, you'd save enough by buying digital to pay for the MP3 player and the cassette adapter by just forgoing a couple of tapes.
As to "cost effective": Blank tapes cost way more than blank CD-Rs. A quick search finds 30 name-brand discs for six bucks [0], and I've seen them less than $0.01 each in bulk. [0b] Tapes cost nearly a dollar each.
Almost everyone, in college or otherwise, needs to have a computer, or has access to one (libraries!), and most inexpensive computers have CD-Rs. If you don't have a CD burner in your computer, one costs less than a decent cassette recorder. $11.99 on Amazon will get you one, in fact. [1]
And it will be faster to make copies onto CDs, and the copies will be strictly better, than using tape.
Tapes are simply a retro "style" thing. They're not cheaper, and they suck. Trying to justify them in any way just doesn't work.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Branded-Recordable-30-Disc-9...
[0b] https://www.amazon.com/Smartbuy-700mb-80min-Recordable-1000-...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Elephant-XuBlack-External-Supports-Co...