From OS X to Ubuntu • Hacker News Board

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#141

Post by nextos » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:01 AM UTC

sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

Given not all manufacturers are friendly with Linux, you just need to cherrypick a bit. For example if you get a laptop that has only Intel components, or all Intel plus an Atheros wireless card, everything will just work.

You might only experience issues in the latest Intel iteration, while they fix some glitches. But Macs have also had teething problems.

ARMs will also become more an more a great option. For example Chromebook Asus C201 can be run with free software and firmware. And it's great & cheap.

The general rule of thumb is, if there are free drivers, it will work well. If not, it won't. Or at least, you might suffer the effects of planned obsolescence.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#142

Post by matt4077 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:03 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #76

lobster_johnson wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other manufacturers also haven't figured out how to organize their models. As far as I can tell, Dell has just a handful of models (XPS, Precision etc.), but if you go and look at the XPS 15, for example, it's a grid of dozens of SKUs with various specs instead of just a single page with customization options. It's not even a matrix -- with models varying by CPU and RAM and disk and such, you'd expect that at lea…

I've never been a product manager but IMO it probably goes something like this: "The framistan line is successful but I hear from our customers that we should have some options that add [x] and drop [y], while having support for more [z]." "We need to create a new line, a totally separate brand from framistan that has way more [x], [y] but no [z] at all. The competition has entered this space and there is clearly a m…

Apple is in a somewhat strange position. I'd argue that they are competing with Asus/Dell/etc. as a company, but their products aren't, in that you first decide between Mac/PC and only then decide on a model. Obviously not true in all cases (i. e. I love Apple to death but had to resort to a very custom desktop for some ML work). But its right often enough to make additional models a losing proposition for Apple: they'd just be competing with themselves.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#143

Post by ePierre » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:04 AM UTC

timtadh wrote: post #44

sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

> Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux on a windows laptop isn't just more work, it is bad for the ecosystem.

I wish I could. Unfortunately, I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here.

You know the most ironic part? My job here is to certify hardware (including a lot of laptops) to work on Linux... so that you guys in the US and Europe can enjoy it :)

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#144

Post by mnm1 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:06 AM UTC

mgbmtl wrote: post #131

mnm1 wrote: post #124

The problem is/was never Linux. For me, it's always been X. At some point, it just stops working. I've had to reinstall from scratch so many times over the last 20 years that I've lost count. Tried again these last couple of months. Nope. The longest X has stayed stable has been almost 6 months, about 5 years ago. Same as 20 and 10 years ago. This time it was only a few weeks. After that, I'm lucky if I get a text lo…

I'm confused by your comment. Why would you have to re-install your OS because of a problem with X? X doesn't typically save a configuration, it doesn't keep a registry, etc. Its settings get regenerated when it boots. Maybe you're encountering application configuration issues? Deleting/re-creating your user account should be enough (or finding the Gnome/KDE/other configuration that is causing problem, but I agree th…

I don't have to reinstall; I just don't have the patience to debug and fix X when it fails. I've definitely had plenty of problems with every single window manager I've ever tried which true, is not X itself, but plenty of the problems have been with graphics and input devices which X does handle. To be complete and clear then, the whole GUI system based on X, including X itself and window managers, has never been stable for me. I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't typically save a configuration." It definitely needs one to run properly (xorg.conf).

As far as manufacturers, I've tried running this on Apple, Dell, Gateway, and desktop boxes I built over the years. There isn't much of a difference between any of them.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#145

Post by gonzo » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:06 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #104

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

> We need another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X.

Jordan Hubbard is at iXsystems now. FreeNAS/TrueNAS & PC-BSD/ TrueOS.

So maybe.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#146

Post by gonzo » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:11 AM UTC

After a decade on MacBooks, I've just gone the same route as the author. Ubuntu on an X1 Carbon 4th gen.

After moving to 16.10, the only thing that doesn't work is the fingerprint reader.

I also buy the systems for most of the developers in my company (we do pfSense), and they're also going to be asked to consider the same solution on future upgrades.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#147

Post by jaegerpicker » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:12 AM UTC

asciimo wrote: post #58

> And now I see their latest MBP line with the Esc key removed... What?! Ha. It almost seems like post-Jobs Apple "innovates" by removing classic user interfaces.

It's only technically removed. The function row including the escape button was replaced with a touch screen that can and does display an escape button in the given context. It's still bad because the escape button is in a different place and doesn't always display at the right time. As a emacs user, escape is my meta key, I dislike it because it messes with my muscle memory.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#148

Post by csdreamer7 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:13 AM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #144

mgbmtl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your comment. Why would you have to re-install your OS because of a problem with X? X doesn't typically save a configuration, it doesn't keep a registry, etc. Its settings get regenerated when it boots. Maybe you're encountering application configuration issues? Deleting/re-creating your user account should be enough (or finding the Gnome/KDE/other configuration that is causing problem, but I agree th…

I don't have to reinstall; I just don't have the patience to debug and fix X when it fails. I've definitely had plenty of problems with every single window manager I've ever tried which true, is not X itself, but plenty of the problems have been with graphics and input devices which X does handle. To be complete and clear then, the whole GUI system based on X, including X itself and window managers, has never been st…

You can download Fedora 25 which uses Wayland on Intel graphics.

With that said I haven't had any real issues with X itself in a long time. It is usually with the drivers in Mesa/Nvidia or the kernel with newer hardware which eventually gets fixed.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#149

Post by bigger_cheese » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

ePierre wrote: post #143

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

> Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux on a windows laptop isn't just more work, it is bad for the ecosystem. I wish I could. Unfortunately, I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here. You know the most ironic part? My job here is to certify hardware (includ…

I had the same issue I live in Australia I bought a XPS 13 from dell (same laptop as developer edition) I had not choice but to have Windows 10 preinstalled. No idea why they made the OS choice region locked...

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#150

Post by methodin » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

corv wrote: post #134

Sure it's possible to use Linux on the desktop. It's also possible to find some laptops that are well supported. Do I want to replace Lightroom, Sketch, Pixelmator, 1Password and Alfred with inferior replacements? No, because my livelihood depends on good tools and I think it's fair to pay money for them.

I find it difficult to believe that your livelihood depends solely on the specific combination of apps you mentioned. It doesn't even seem like you've actually tried any of these apps yet call them inferior? Inferior how? That's quite an elitist stance to portray without the specifics to back it up here.