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Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

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Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#141

Post by Tomis02 »

StevePerkins wrote: post #129
Tomis02 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I really miss the skins in Opera 12, there were some gorgeous ones. I agree that the email client is not necessarily a priority, however > Every other major browser opens the link in a background tab, keeping the focus in the tab you're currently on. Oh wow, that's pretty bad for every other major browser. We have two use cases: 1) I want to open the link in a new tab and switch focus (presumably to read right n…

Indeed, you CAN get to the common behavior by clicking an item further down on the context menu... or by pressing some unholy keyboard combination. But to be frank, it's clunky and I'm simply not going to bother so long as Opera is being actively developed. If Opera did stop, or turned into Chinese malware or something, then I would probably just jump over to Firefox and use plugins for the most Opera-like experience…

All disagreements aside, I would really like understand why you feel "open in new tab" should not focus the new tab (apart from habit). In my experience Chrome users click "open in new tab" and then click the newly opened tab anyway, which is one extra mouse click and more mouse movement than in Vivaldi/Opera12 where you only have to click 'open in new tab' (fewer clicks and less mouse movement overall, it's obviously more efficient). I'm pretty sure you don't intend to argue that non-power users will employ the ctrl+shift+click shortcut. And if you don't want to focus the tab then you can simply use the middle mouse button (same results on all browsers), or you can go 15 pixels lower and click 'open in background tab'.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#142

Post by bigbugbag »

StevePerkins wrote: post #129
Tomis02 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I really miss the skins in Opera 12, there were some gorgeous ones. I agree that the email client is not necessarily a priority, however > Every other major browser opens the link in a background tab, keeping the focus in the tab you're currently on. Oh wow, that's pretty bad for every other major browser. We have two use cases: 1) I want to open the link in a new tab and switch focus (presumably to read right n…

Indeed, you CAN get to the common behavior by clicking an item further down on the context menu... or by pressing some unholy keyboard combination. But to be frank, it's clunky and I'm simply not going to bother so long as Opera is being actively developed. If Opera did stop, or turned into Chinese malware or something, then I would probably just jump over to Firefox and use plugins for the most Opera-like experience…

I wonder what you are talking about, Opera did stop and turned into a Chrome clone which brought vivaldi and otter into existence to close the gap it left.

I don't get Where the extra click you are talking about is, either click on open in new tab or open in background tab, same number of click.

I'm not sure what kind of customization you are asking for, you want to remove the choice of opening in background tab ?

What is this common / default behavior you are talking about ? AFAIK the common, default, standard behavior of right clicking has always been to bring up the contextual menu. Where is it not like that ?

I am not aware of vivaldi users requesting a change of the expected behavior to be more chrome like, AFAIK it is the other way around: keep the old opera goodness and keep catering to power users and provide choice.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#143

Post by bigbugbag »

Tomis02 wrote: post #141
StevePerkins wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, you CAN get to the common behavior by clicking an item further down on the context menu... or by pressing some unholy keyboard combination. But to be frank, it's clunky and I'm simply not going to bother so long as Opera is being actively developed. If Opera did stop, or turned into Chinese malware or something, then I would probably just jump over to Firefox and use plugins for the most Opera-like experience…

All disagreements aside, I would really like understand why you feel "open in new tab" should not focus the new tab (apart from habit). In my experience Chrome users click "open in new tab" and then click the newly opened tab anyway, which is one extra mouse click and more mouse movement than in Vivaldi/Opera12 where you only have to click 'open in new tab' (fewer clicks and less mouse movement overall, it's obviousl…

Funny that I also came up with the 15 pixels value in my answer to steveperkins, though I second guessed myself and replaced it by "few" pixels.

Is it 15 pixels really a valid approximation ?

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#144

Post by bigbugbag »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #58
StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

Almost everyone I know using email for business uses a desktop client - usually Mac Mail, sometimes thunderbird. A new client that isn't quite so neglected would be very welcome.

it would be nice if Trojita was ready for everyday use.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#145

Post by bigbugbag »

Fnoord wrote: post #96
suprfnk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature feature of Opera back in the day. Really? That's dumb. Why would I want my browser to check my email? That should be another program, or just a webpage. The browser browses the internet. Perhaps I'm not the audience, as I've always liked the Unix "do one thing and do it well" approach.

> The browser browses the internet. You mean 'the World Wide Web' [1] since 'the Internet' includes other protocols than HTTP(S) such as SMTP, POP3, and IMAP. Nowadays, Node is everywhere. Slack, using JavaScript, is replacing IRC. One of the best e-mail clients is Nylas N1 which uses JavaScript under the hood. Hyper is a terminal using JavaScript. Discord is becoming the defacto standard for VoIP gaming, and uses Ja…

I'm not sure about the excellent user experience and UIs working well.

Im my experience of fixing computers for everyday people with not so fast DSL connections, those javascript based things usually have terrible performance and causes problems by breaking basic web browser functionalities such as history and bookmarks that those people rely on.

Then there are the UI issue of too small resolution, or increased font size to help with bad vision and many other accessibility concerns.

But I suppose that if you are using a recent computer, on a large flat screen, on high speed internet connection, and do not use privacy related features such as ublock, noscript or policy control you probably enjoy a flawless experience.

To me relying only on javascript for your web service or site is akin to answering the customer phone line 0.5% of the time by saying "f* ck you * ssh* le, I sh*t on your ugly face".

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#146

Post by bigbugbag »

StevePerkins wrote: post #128
Aoyagi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just don't WANT a re-implementation of Opera from 15 years ago. I'm sorry, but desktop email is dead for most of us. Well, those "most of you" clearly are not the target audience. And you're not the majority either, I should add. Sounds like you just want Chrome, to be frank.

Nope. Like I said, I use Opera: * It still has a more impressive array of power user features than Chrome or Firefoxv * It's sync service is more reliable than the other two. * It works with Chrome extensions, and has no compatibility issues with websites (unless a site is stupid enough to check with User-Agent headers, and those can be spoofed with an extension in the worst-case). * Last but not least, Opera has the…

From what you say, it seems to me you don't use opera, but the chrome skin they decided to keep the name of the actual browser for marketing reasons.

I use opera since version 8.5 and I had to pin the v12.16 package to keep using it, which I still do today because there is no alternative to the features it had. And I have no idea what you are talking about, the whole opera supporters who supported it through the years pretty much agree the blink based opera sucks really hard and are happy to have vivaldi as an attempt to get back the awesomeness opera lost when it switched to making profit first.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#147

Post by temp »

bigbugbag wrote: post #140
StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

> I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. Is it really ? I have not used bookmarks since del.icio.us and never need any bookmarks sync as my bookmarks are not in the browser but in my wallabag. > it's probably no exaggeration to say that most users haven't used a desktop email client in over a decade. So why is such a retro throwback feature prioritiz…

>never need any bookmarks sync as my bookmarks are not in the browser but in my wallabag

Most people have never even heard of "wallabag" and yes, having your bookmarks synced across browser instances on various devices is a fundamental feature. If I bookmark something on a mobile device or a laptop, I want it to be available on my desktop (and vice-versa), without having to use third party tools.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#149

Post by colanderman »

StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

Right click -> open in background tab has been in Vivaldi for as long as I can remember. Sure it's the SECOND menu item but so?

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#150

Post by staticautomatic »

tnecniv wrote: post #57
tornadoboy55 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, it's probably no exaggeration to say that most users haven't used a desktop email client in over a decade. Almost everyone that uses macOS uses Apple Mail. Actually, I prefer that from having to (keep ) open a tab for Gmail.

I even use Postbox

I love Postbox as a mail client but the lack of calendar integration with meeting invitation support is a deal breaker for my work with corporate clients. I got by with the Lightning plug in for a while but it looks like they've discontinued it. I'm planning on moving back to outlook, sadly.
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