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Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

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Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#141

Post by halflings »

ArlenBales wrote: post #100

My utopian society workweek is 4 days/8 hours. That extra day off would do far more for people than one or two less hours every day. So 4x8=32 hours, vs 6x5=30 hours. I would even bargain for 4 days/9 hours, or 4x9=36 hours. That third day is huge. It's the difference from having only enough time for some leisurely weekend activities, to having enough time to take a mini-3-day-vacation every week (short flights, etc.…

I guess it makes less sense for a business though: you're probably less productive the longer you work on a same day, and most businesses will still have to work according to the traditional Mon-Fri schedule. 6 hours per day over 5 days might be the right balance.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#142

Post by rogerdpack »

rogerdpack wrote: post #85
giarc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trial was for 68 employees and cost $1.7 million USD (they had to hire additional staff). Imagine you took that $1.7m and spent it on those 68 employees. $25,000/employee would go a long way to increasing happiness with perks etc.

Yes I suppose the real question is would those employees "elect" for a 6 hour day with a 25% pay cut, or not...that would give you something of a feeling for whether the benefits out weight cost, as it were...

Though I suppose if there are performance improvements, it might be more of a 15% pay cut, or 10% [?]

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#143

Post by lapinrigolo »

Klockan wrote: post #139
loup-vaillant wrote: post #115

Something in those numbers doesn't add up. I gather they maintained the salaries. Good. They had to hire more people, at a cost of 12 million kronor. This mechanically reduced unemployment, and saved the state 4.7 million kronor. Shall I deduce the unemployed people were paid 40% less than the salary they got? Something is wrong there: in France, unemployment insurance maintains 75% of the base salary. Saving only 40…

It could be their first job, they could have been long-term unemployed (you don't get aids forever) or they could have had jobs with lower salaries before.

So far we haven't been able to cure aids.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#144

Post by jeena »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #129
alkonaut wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know ANYONE who would be happier if they got a 25% pay cut First of all, relax. Second: Pay was not cut. This was an experiment with a 30h work week with 100% pay. Unions would never agree to anyones pay being cut. The benefits they were looking for in this case would not be higher employment. The main benefit would be reduced people on sick leaves because of work related illness (stress, depression, overwo…

> First of all, relax. Second: Pay was not cut. First of all, I am relaxed. Second of all, please read my comment and the comment I was responding to. It says: >> the hours that were cut also wouldn't have to be paid to the people not working them. and then the conclusion is: >> In a perfect situation this would have led to higher employment numbers and happier employees. Which, again, is hippie logic. I don't know a…

Interesting, in Germany the people in the metal industry only work 35 hours a week, just 5 hours more, and they are one of the best payed groups. I guess it depends on how we can automate and how much we value this or that kind of work.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#145

Post by istjohn »

lapinrigolo wrote: post #143
Klockan wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be their first job, they could have been long-term unemployed (you don't get aids forever) or they could have had jobs with lower salaries before.

So far we haven't been able to cure aids.

Pretty sure they meant unemployment compensation or the like.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#146

Post by kirrent »

ArlenBales wrote: post #100

My utopian society workweek is 4 days/8 hours. That extra day off would do far more for people than one or two less hours every day. So 4x8=32 hours, vs 6x5=30 hours. I would even bargain for 4 days/9 hours, or 4x9=36 hours. That third day is huge. It's the difference from having only enough time for some leisurely weekend activities, to having enough time to take a mini-3-day-vacation every week (short flights, etc.…

A large part of the reason I took the job I'm currently working at is the slightly shorter work hours combined with flexible work hours means that I can put in a bit less than two hours extra for four days and take the fifth one off. Do that on both sides of the weekend and your mini 3 day holiday becomes one where you get waaay more time at your destination and more than the travel time even if you're spending a large part of a day at each end travelling.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#147

Post by tempestn »

mordocai wrote: post #127
andrewstuart2 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, hold the phone. That's not really accurate according to the article nor the paper he linked. The trial was 6 hour work days, as the article claims. After downloading the aforementioned paper and uploading the to google translate, since I don't speak Swedish: > Summary 18 months with 6 hours > 6 hours of trial > City of Gothenburg decided in 2014 to conduct a trial with 6-hour day with follow-up research. The tr…

> The only reason it wasn't exactly 6 was for business/logistical reasons. The person you are calling inaccurate said as much in different words. If it wasn't exactly 6 then you shouldn't call it 6.

We call a standard work day 8 even though it isn't exactly 8. If indeed the idea was to shift a standard work day from approximately 8 hours to approximately 6 hours, it seems reasonable to refer to it as the "6-hour work day". (I haven't read the report, so won't comment on whether that was indeed the focus, as opposed to a more flexible 30-hour week.)

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#148

Post by yazaddaruvala »

lapinrigolo wrote: post #143
Klockan wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be their first job, they could have been long-term unemployed (you don't get aids forever) or they could have had jobs with lower salaries before.

So far we haven't been able to cure aids.

I think the parent meant: "you don't receive aid, forever"

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#149

Post by baldfat »

What a waste of a study. If they the end result is that they didn't realize the cost up front. I think this is just a poorly written click bait title.

100% they knew the cost. The outcome was :

>The take away was largely positive, with nurses at the home feeling healthier, which reduced sick-leave, and patient care improving.

While we are headed to super automation and the reduction of workforce (And a stagnant or growing GDP) it is either free money for the non-workers or reduced work hours. It's Jetson's again.

Re: Sweden reveals results from pilot of 30-hour work week

#150

Post by fetbaffe »

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #124
dang wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, we put "30 hour work week" in the title instead. Thanks!

Wait, hold the phone. That's not really accurate according to the article nor the paper he linked. The trial was 6 hour work days, as the article claims. After downloading the aforementioned paper and uploading the to google translate, since I don't speak Swedish: > Summary 18 months with 6 hours > 6 hours of trial > City of Gothenburg decided in 2014 to conduct a trial with 6-hour day with follow-up research. The tr…

TL;DR the study is a 30 hour/week study and in practice the employees work 6 to 6.25h a day. When you speak about the study in laymen terms, you can say 6 hour/workday pilot because that is what it is in practice , however to be scientifically correct it is 30 hours/week pilot.

Full explanation ->

From the report with Google Translate

> Full-time dimensions in the study is 30 hours / week compared to normal working hours at 38.25 hours in the daytime alternatively 37.00 hours (depending on working agreement at the time of appointment) and 36.33 hours for the night.

So the report clearly states 30 hours/week as "heltidsmått" (a measured full-time). Not 6 hours/day.

What about "in practice"? If you look at the first report after 6 months

http://goteborg.vansterpartiet.se/files/2015/10/2015-10-07-6...

Page 6, two tables of example schedules, one to the left before the pilot and the right during the pilot. Remember that a work day includes a free 30 min lunch break so there is a difference between the two columns Period and Timmar (Hours) for 0.5h except the night shift, no free lunch there!

As we can see all day shifts are either 6h or 6.25h during the pilot.

So what about the 5 to 7 hours? I think that is the range what the pilot accepts as "6-hour" workday measurement, i.e you have to have min-max otherwise you could put everything on two days.

Found in the summary after 12 months slide 8

http://we.gu.se/digitalAssets/1574/1574441_2016-04-21-1445-s...

Left column, the Trial 5-7 hours/day as "ram" (frame, within these numbers, budget)

But in practice the schedule ended up as 6 to 6.25h. I guess to try to be true to 6-hour workday ideal.

Note: working hours in Sweden is regulated to 40 hours/week.

https://www.av.se/arbetsmiljoarbete-och-inspektioner/lagar-o...

New note: one of the political parties behind this pilot, the Left party, calls the pilot "six hour working day/30 hours working week". That should keep it covered!

http://nyheter24.se/debatt/767075-pilhem-v-darfor-infor-vi-6...

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