Food? I could put up with everything in China, even the Great Firewall, but food, except xiao long bao, is really no go.
How can you even say that?
China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
141–150 of 372 posts
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd always though of English and China as examples of hard languages in terms of sounds Glad you mention this. I don't think most native English speakers are aware how complex English phonetics are. There are subtleties that only native speakers can distinguish. That is why many not-native speakers mispronounce some sounds. It is not that we are dummy. Our brain is just unable to hear (and produce) the exact sound.
English is a strange language, but I wouldn't say especially difficult. Chinese is much harder to learn because it's so inconsistent between what you're supposed to say and the way people actually talk. In addition to using tones that are very unfamiliar and then you also need to learn the written language which is very difficult and requires a Chinese-Chinese dictionary for strange words like manticore and sometimes…
Have you considered Soviet film? Pronunciation is usually very clear.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is learning tones much harder than learning all the weird vowel and consonant sounds that English has? I'd always though of English and China as examples of hard languages in terms of sounds and languages like Spanish and Japanese as easy in terms of sounds.
In my experience, if you're sorta close in English, you can sort of get your point across, even if you mispronounce words, because the mispronounced word means no sense so you start thinking about a possible explanation. In Chinese, a different tone actually is a valid word with its own meaning, so it's a bit harder for you to get your point across.
To be fair though, if you nail all the other parts of pronunciation/speaking correctly and only get the tones wrong, a Chinese speaker will be able to infer your meaning the vast majority of the time.
Half of Korean vocabulary is Chinese, with pronunciation based on ancient Chinese pronunciation, but Korean has no tones and their writing system has recently become more or less completely phonetic. Disambiguation is still not a huge problem for them.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow. That's pretty horrifying.
None of those stories are rare in the US professional world - GP did not say that's happening every day there. Also, the 40-hr work week is a relatively new development even in advanced nations. China is newer to this game so yes a six day work week will be considered an achievement.
I'm not sure what it means to be shipped to a different city and not being allowed to leave means, but even junior investment bankers on wall street don't have to do that.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#145I agree with the article. I've spent a little bit of time in China, and I find it enjoyable despite its obvious detractors. In many ways, the Chinese lifestyle is refreshing to someone who has spent their life in California.
The problem is going to be with the Government being so hostile to open information. That and the salaries are not going to be as competitive. And I predict Trump will do little to shake the Californian stronghold of technology.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#146I believe the author should have explored another reason: English. One of the legacies of the British Empire is that a lot of the educated people in the world use English. Even in Europe, it is the lingua franca for business and academia. (In mighty Germany, the top institutions publish in English). I think the applications and work would have to be done in English for China to effectively attract global talent.
If US attracts talent and they are all speak English, what reason you think that China cannot attract talent who are going to speak Chinese?
Whether we like it or not, English is the defacto "business" language. Most (if not all) places in the world conduct business in their native languages(s) and English.
So why would I want to learn Mandarin, which I've been told is super hard to learn and is for most purposes, useless elsewhere in the world?
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just curious, what are some examples of difficult/weird vowel or consonant sounds that you think English has? And why do you think Spanish is easy in terms of sounds? IMO Mandarin is pretty difficult since it has both tones and weird vowels/consonants - I feel like in English most people struggling tend to only have significant trouble with articles and the "th" sound.
In English in The South in the USA, often "can" and "can't" are pronounced the same ("can") with a minor difference in the way the "a" and "n" are held.
This is not really true. You're probably hinting at the being unreleased. However, it is definitely still there.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
If US attracts talent and they are all speak English, what reason you think that China cannot attract talent who are going to speak Chinese?
There are a few reasons: 1. You are usually effective and comfortable in the language you were educated in. 2. If you want to do business with a person in another language, you usually both default to English because it is usually second language if it is not their first. I mean look at your own situation. I assume that you are fairly well educated (on Hacker News, decent grammar, and asked a good question). Suppose…
After Ireland, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, I'd probably go for Scandinavian countries and Iceland. They have smaller native-speaking populations, a high level of exposure to English, and great foreign language training. Then I'd probably go for countries like Latvia, Romania, etc.
I'd consider Germany and France to be third-tier in that sense because they have large native-speaking populations and a greater expectation that people know their language.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#149One cultural factor is the fact that developers have a low social standing in China (sometimes referred to as 马工). This leads to low pay, reduced dating pool, lack of respect from people you meet etc.
Developers in China fare much better than in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, or Korea, for sure. They get paid more (relatively speaking) and are pretty desirable on the dating market. If you tell someone in Beijing "I work for Microsoft", you get a much better response than if you tell someone the same thing in Seattle! I'm hardly pro china, but the society has been pretty aggressive in courting SEs and paying them well (…
But that comparison about a Microsoft employee isn't about being an engineer. It's about "I work for Microsoft" == "old and crusty", "coasting" in Seattle. In Beijing it might be more impressive because it's a well-known prestigious company.
Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon
#150Is China really trying? I know they had some initiatives to get Americans with the Trump election. In general, I don't think it's an actual goal for them. They have a large pool of talent. They aren't needing to go outside yet.