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Amazon Go

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Re: Amazon Go

#141

Post by waqf »

kirykl wrote: post #87
elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

Avoiding getting charged is an incentive to put it back in the right place that doesn't exist currently. Maybe not even where you picked up just a discard area

Yeah, or it's an incentive to not shop there at all. You can't just use "incentive" as a reason why you expect to succeed with a UX that punishes your users for small mistakes.

Re: Amazon Go

#142

Post by mtrn »

gech wrote: post #120
jtcond13 wrote: post #100

Your periodic reminder that 'retail salesperson' is the most common job in America (~4.5 million). http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-10-m...

It's just a starter job, people shouldn't rely on them as a career, it's their fault, bootstraps, etc. etc.

> people shouldn't rely on them as a career

Nobody thinks of that as a career, but 4.5 million people seem to rely on it for income nonetheless.

Re: Amazon Go

#143

Post by Spare_account »

mankyd wrote: post #106
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

> are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? One could respond that you can never truly shop lift if you follow the rules. First, you have to check in when you enter. Second, they tell you to grab and go. As long as you don't try to be malicious about it, then it's on Amazon to figure out what to charge you for. If they fail to see something, that's on them.

Presumably there will be some terms and conditions that require you to examine the receipt for the visit and make good any omissions. I don't suppose it would be impossible for Amazon to protect themselves from this kind of loss.

Re: Amazon Go

#144

Post by [deleted] »

mankyd wrote: post #106
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

> are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? One could respond that you can never truly shop lift if you follow the rules. First, you have to check in when you enter. Second, they tell you to grab and go. As long as you don't try to be malicious about it, then it's on Amazon to figure out what to charge you for. If they fail to see something, that's on them.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Go

#145

Post by joezydeco »

erelde wrote: post #44
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

I'll admit, my first thoughts were "How can I exploit this system? How would I place sensors? What kind of sensors? Pressure plates? Cameras? IR trackers?" etc etc. And I'm no shoplifter, never done that, I just tinker with stuff all the time. It's a kind of occupational psychosis. Same with lockpicks.

My take is that a foil-lined bag will bypass the whole system.

Re: Amazon Go

#146

Post by cobookman »

joezydeco wrote: post #102
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wouldn't trust 'picked up off the shelf' detection, not without the whole thing looking like a giant vending machine. RFID tags on products probably works better.

I don't think the system works like that. From my first quick take of the video, the app+turnstyle is used to identify you to the store. The video system then tracks your position as you walk around. When you walk out, the items are recognized and tallied by a large RFID sweep. Funneling you back out through a turnstyle makes sure the vision system knows it's you. Notice that you don't need to barcode yourself on the…

Not as crazy as it sounds. With RAIN Rfid you can get the xyz location of a tag from ~30ft away accurate to 6" in realtime.

Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LykdRWTfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCA8L7v-R8

Re: Amazon Go

#147

Post by devy »

elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

If all merchandise in the Amazon Go store have been RFID tagged, this is a non-issue for checkout, as the turnstile tag scanner should be able to sense the items you take out of the store. As far as randomly put back at a different place of the items, the staff can use the tag scanner to detect that and fix it up even easier as oppose to physically locate the item by human vision which is arguably harder and less efficiently.

We don't know the details yet but RFID may solve this issue completely.

Re: Amazon Go

#148

Post by Magnets »

bbrks wrote: post #41
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

In the UK, Tesco have been running a 'Scan as you Shop'[0] thing for a couple of years now. Customers pick up a scanner as they enter, scan their items as they go into their cart, and they have special checkouts which read your scanner. There's a random chance that your scanner will be audited by a human against the contents of your shopping cart. Usually the first time you use it, then it backs off. [0] http://www.t…

Tesco started that back in the late 90s and Sainsburys also did it 5+ years ago, then Tesco seems to have had another go at it recently.

edit: Safeway was first, in 1997

The Camden store illustrates the progress Safeway has made in other directions too. As part of its customer friendliness, Safeway was the first of the major food multiples to introduce self-scanning, the system it calls Shop & Go.

http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/uk-safeway-follows-leader/a...

Re: Amazon Go

#149

Post by sprafa »

draw_down wrote: post #130
jtcond13 wrote: post #100

Your periodic reminder that 'retail salesperson' is the most common job in America (~4.5 million). http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-10-m...

Supplemental reminder that tech exists largely to eliminate jobs. Whoops, that was a typo- I meant to write "increase productivity".

those two things are directly related. People need to stop being blind about the fact that yes, there will be mass unemployment soon.

Re: Amazon Go

#150

Post by dasboth »

bbrks wrote: post #41
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

In the UK, Tesco have been running a 'Scan as you Shop'[0] thing for a couple of years now. Customers pick up a scanner as they enter, scan their items as they go into their cart, and they have special checkouts which read your scanner. There's a random chance that your scanner will be audited by a human against the contents of your shopping cart. Usually the first time you use it, then it backs off. [0] http://www.t…

> There's a random chance that your scanner will be audited by a human against the contents of your shopping cart. Usually the first time you use it, then it backs off.

I must be really suspicious-looking because I've been subjected to a "random audit" all 5 times I used it. Gave up because with a weekly shop it's quicker to go to an actual checkout than having someone scan all of my items again.

The idea's good, but my experience of the execution has been bad.

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