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Azure Jupyter Notebooks

notebooks.azure.com

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Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#141

Post by KirinDave »

jsjohnst wrote: post #132
KirinDave wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python gets it right. Ruby gets it right. Julia gets it right. Most lisps get it right etc. What. I ship Clojure all day, got CL in my past. Was a full time ruby dev. I got a list of ugh and eck for all of them. I can name 30 more issues with Python. Truth be told, I think Python is a rancid language and I think people who love it are basically eating barf pancakes every day and thanking people who look down on the…

While his vitriol was extremely hyperbolic, I get his point somewhat on obtuse syntax. Take this example of Haskell from their docs: thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. It's my same objection to things like Coffeescript, if you thin…

We weren't talking about any of this.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#142

Post by KirinDave »

jsjohnst wrote: post #132
KirinDave wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python gets it right. Ruby gets it right. Julia gets it right. Most lisps get it right etc. What. I ship Clojure all day, got CL in my past. Was a full time ruby dev. I got a list of ugh and eck for all of them. I can name 30 more issues with Python. Truth be told, I think Python is a rancid language and I think people who love it are basically eating barf pancakes every day and thanking people who look down on the…

While his vitriol was extremely hyperbolic, I get his point somewhat on obtuse syntax. Take this example of Haskell from their docs: thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. It's my same objection to things like Coffeescript, if you thin…

We weren't talking about any of this.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#143

Post by dragonwriter »

jsjohnst wrote: post #132
KirinDave wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python gets it right. Ruby gets it right. Julia gets it right. Most lisps get it right etc. What. I ship Clojure all day, got CL in my past. Was a full time ruby dev. I got a list of ugh and eck for all of them. I can name 30 more issues with Python. Truth be told, I think Python is a rancid language and I think people who love it are basically eating barf pancakes every day and thanking people who look down on the…

While his vitriol was extremely hyperbolic, I get his point somewhat on obtuse syntax. Take this example of Haskell from their docs: thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. It's my same objection to things like Coffeescript, if you thin…

> It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code.

To the extent that true, it's because of the weird historic moment between the mid 1990s and now where essentially every industrially popular general purpose language is from the C branch of the Algol family.

It's not really the whitespace (which is clear in semantics), and other than the lambda slash and the infix ticks, the whole thing is pretty clear from a Lisp background. (Well, I'm familiar enough with Haskell now that I'm not filtering it through some other language, but the similarity to Lisp is what helped it start to click early on for me, even though it's an ML descendant and not a Lisp descendant.)

We're actually starting to see more gains for non-Algol descended general purpose languages, so maybe the syntax shyness of the last generation or so of programmers will soon be a thing of the past, because knowing multiple languages won't so invariably be knowing multiple members of the same syntax family.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#144

Post by jsjohnst »

codygman wrote: post #137
jsjohnst wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While his vitriol was extremely hyperbolic, I get his point somewhat on obtuse syntax. Take this example of Haskell from their docs: thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. It's my same objection to things like Coffeescript, if you thin…

> It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. Perhaps I've been using Haskell too long but that code looks very clear to me.

Yes, it looks clear to me too. But you and I are Haskell programmers. That said, outside maybe OCaml, no other language I've written code in (which is about 26ish at this point) prepared me mentally to be able to grok the syntax.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#145

Post by jsjohnst »

dragonwriter wrote: post #143
jsjohnst wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While his vitriol was extremely hyperbolic, I get his point somewhat on obtuse syntax. Take this example of Haskell from their docs: thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. It's my same objection to things like Coffeescript, if you thin…

> It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. To the extent that true, it's because of the weird historic moment between the mid 1990s and now where essentially every industrially popular general purpose language is from the C branch of the Algol family. It's not really the whitespace (which is clear in semantics), and other than the lambd…

If you removed the middle paragraph, I'd wholeheartedly agree everything you said. Unfortunately I don't feel my prior Lisp experience helped me as much when I was starting off in Haskell as it apparently did you.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#146

Post by jsjohnst »

tome wrote: post #139
codygman wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter how good you are in [insert almost any common language], you'll really struggle to understand that code. Perhaps I've been using Haskell too long but that code looks very clear to me.

And it looks slightly clearer when laid out correctly thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e But this is not a fair test. There needs to be a control. Implement the same functionality in Python and then we'll talk about which language is clearer.

I copy-pasted directly from the doc page that layout, guess I should've proofread it to make sure alignment was right. Thanks!

As to the comment re: control / python, I'm sorry but it's so obvious to me the syntax would be more legible to most developers (since "most" use Algol descendent syntax languages) even if done somewhat poorly, I don't feel like taking the time. I welcome you to prove me wrong, I'll gladly stand corrected if so!

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#147

Post by fbreduc »

smortaz wrote: post #73

Hi folks - Thanks for taking a look at Azure notebooks. Here's some background info: What is it? It's an offshoot of Azure ML Studio which has Jupyter support. We asked the powers that be if we could also instantiate it also as a free service - "yes" was the answer. Who is it aimed at? Students, faculty, casual users, folks that want to give webinars, classrooms, etc & want to skip software install headaches. What do…

clojure please!

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#148

Post by fperez_org »

smortaz wrote: post #79
gaius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, this notebook or worksheet style interface isn't meant to be a text editor tho', or to develop software it's meant to interactively help you write a paper or a report. We had this in MathCAD in the '90s, where it used MS Word as it's "editor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathcad

[msft] Yep. Check out Jupyter Lab which tries address other scenarios. A lightweight IDE with notebook, file, editor, windowing support: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab

And btw, it's worth mentioning that in JupyterLab, we just merged a PR that will make embedding the Monaco editor (the editing component of VS code) much easier: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/pull/1140.

With that in, now the Monaco integration is being worked on: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/pull/1382.

We all want stronger editing capabilities, but it doesn't make sense for the Jupyter team to get into the business of writing text editors (plenty of better folks doing a great job on that already). So we're just trying to make it easier to integrate other text editors into the everyday workflow.

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#149

Post by tome »

jsjohnst wrote: post #146
tome wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it looks slightly clearer when laid out correctly thenP :: P a -> (a -> P b) -> P b m `thenP` k = \s -> case m s of Ok a -> k a s Failed e -> Failed e But this is not a fair test. There needs to be a control. Implement the same functionality in Python and then we'll talk about which language is clearer.

I copy-pasted directly from the doc page that layout, guess I should've proofread it to make sure alignment was right. Thanks! As to the comment re: control / python, I'm sorry but it's so obvious to me the syntax would be more legible to most developers (since "most" use Algol descendent syntax languages) even if done somewhat poorly, I don't feel like taking the time. I welcome you to prove me wrong, I'll gladly st…

What?! How would you even write that combinator in Python? You can't possibly convince me it would be clearer!

Re: Azure Jupyter Notebooks

#150

Post by smortaz »

fperez_org wrote: post #148
smortaz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[msft] Yep. Check out Jupyter Lab which tries address other scenarios. A lightweight IDE with notebook, file, editor, windowing support: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab

And btw, it's worth mentioning that in JupyterLab, we just merged a PR that will make embedding the Monaco editor (the editing component of VS code) much easier: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/pull/1140 . With that in, now the Monaco integration is being worked on: https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/pull/1382 . We all want stronger editing capabilities, but it doesn't make sense for the Jupyter team t…

[msft] Well, this is an honor - the creator of Jupyter commenting on this thread & not just any comment... but about embedding the Visual Studio Code editor in Jupyter Lab :).

Thanks Fernando, Brian, Min & team for everything you've done with Jupyter. Looking fwd to using Jlab soon!

s

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