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Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

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Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#141

From section 1 of the tutorial: > Since it came out in October 2016, [Yarn] received a very quick adoption and is becoming the new package manager of choice of the JavaScript community. We are going to use Yarn in this tutorial. It's October 2016 as I write. Tell me this tutorial is satire. Please.

Yarn is essentially a layer on top of NPM which was already the standard, hence the quick adoption.

That aside god forbid anything get better quickly. Javascript developers should suffer like anyone else.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How big is the nodemodules dir after installing these 12 "small tools" ?

Who cares? This is 2016, memory footprint hasn't been relevant in years.

This attitude is precisely why so many software projects nowadays are memory hogs. Not everyone has an i7-powered Macbook with 8+ GB of RAM.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#143
post #128
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need all of these tools to get an app up and running even though reading the tech blogs may make it seem like you do. Frontend dev isn't really that difficult if you focus only on what is really needed for your app at hand.

It's just tiring though. I want to make a simple website. But in order to do it "right" or "optimally" or whatever, I need to flush all the old stuff I know down the toilet (jQuery, etc.) and learn a mountain of new stuff.

At my current gig we maintain two stacks:

1. Angular-based template generator for "I'm a backend dev but my manager assigned me to build a front-end, just tell me how to do it"

2. React/Webpack/Babel/etc. stack for the front-end folks who really care about customization and control.

If you don't need to build complex, maintainable web applications for your job this toolset probably comprises more reading/setup than you'd want to do. For me they're a life saver.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#144
post #140
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, from the outside I can understand the "everything keeps changing!!" complaint, but having been involved in JS for a few years, every single tool that got replaced was replaced for completely valid reasons, that couldn't have been solved incrementally by improving what was already there. Grunt > Gulp > Webpack manual polyfills > 6to5 > Babel script tags > bower > NPM > Yarn nothing > Flow/Typescript All of these…

The thing is, in other languages, frameworks and libraries can evolve without being replaced. It's called version 2. I can't help but think that in the JS world, you are more likely to ditch the old project because JS code is more difficult to read and maintain than languages that have more static typing, a somewhat higher entry bar, and a culture that values stability. In other words, this is the consequence of opti…

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Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#145
post #140
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, from the outside I can understand the "everything keeps changing!!" complaint, but having been involved in JS for a few years, every single tool that got replaced was replaced for completely valid reasons, that couldn't have been solved incrementally by improving what was already there. Grunt > Gulp > Webpack manual polyfills > 6to5 > Babel script tags > bower > NPM > Yarn nothing > Flow/Typescript All of these…

The thing is, in other languages, frameworks and libraries can evolve without being replaced. It's called version 2. I can't help but think that in the JS world, you are more likely to ditch the old project because JS code is more difficult to read and maintain than languages that have more static typing, a somewhat higher entry bar, and a culture that values stability. In other words, this is the consequence of opti…

> However as Javascript is maturing and branching out to server-side programming and at the same time the client side becomes more complex, you can't keep re-writing all your tools every couple of years, or even every 5 years.

The client side becoming more complex is the reason why new tools keep being developed.

> If you don't have that, you are going to be subject to increasing exponential costs that are going to weigh very heavily on the language. Soon, you'll need to spend almost all your resources just re-writing stuff.

No one is forced to rewrite their code when a new tool is released.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with continuously changing technologies is that it doesn't allow you to become a master of that stack, so your constantly relearning how to accomplish the same thing. It's inefficient. If I build my applications with well established technologies, then I can do it quickly and accurately. Sure, I might miss out on some cutting edge benefits, but my shit works, always. However, if i switch to JS, I feel lik…

That's the state of the computing industry. 80% of the continuing education is about learning to do what you already knew how to do in a newer, hotter stack (but not necessarily better). 20% is about learning new paradigms. And I'm being too generous. It's probably about 5%. Suddenly being a medical doctor sounds much less stressful. I really feel some of us chose the wrong career path. Imagine having high social sta…

Having experience in both worlds, I can assure you medicine isn't what you seem to think it is. Social status, and income aren't so grand these days, and working conditions are bad for a lot of practitioners. And "debugging meat machines" is anything but well-understood in the majority of serious cases.

I know working with Javascript can be an annoying proposition. I'm maintaining a web app I wrote a couple of years ago in vanilla JS and gotten to be kind of a hairy beast. Probably would be better to rewrite it, but it works and for all the warts at least I know where they are. Maybe I'm just too lazy to take the time and effort to recreate from scratch. I figure by the time I got it working, I'd always be lagging the newer, "better" stuff anyway.

Interestingly, your comments about education have a parallel in CME (continuing medical education). There are real paradigm switches that appear from time to time, but not as much as you'd think. Most changes have to do with small refinements like new medicines that are variations on the current ones, theoretical or research findings, administrative or procedural issues.

So yeah, the really important information approximates the 5% figure you cite, and a significant amount of "updated" info is only marginally different or new, more or less equivalent to the "newer, hotter stack" idea you mention. Sure seems all that greener grass still needs to be mowed about the same way.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#147
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this ecosystem. It's living, it's thriving. I love the fact that tons of great engineers are coming up with new ideas everyday to make my life as a developer easier. I love hearing a developer at a daily stand-up meeting saying he's been up all night trying out a new shiny thing and concluding by saying it also solves a big issue we had in our product and here's the pull request (timestamp 4am). The hype is he…

What exactly makes them "great engineers" other than they are visible? Great engineers are folks like Woz, Cutler, and Linus.

Apparently, the fact that they work until 4am?

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#148
post #20

This is exactly why I don't do frontend development anymore. The number of tools needed to get an app up and running is ridiculous. Add in cross browser compatibility and it's all just one big headache.

> Add in cross browser compatibility and it's all just one big headache.

Cross browser compatibility is one of the reasons why these tools exist.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#149
This whole complicated stack of parts is why I don't really like React, you're never 100% sure if what you're doing is best practice. I find Ember to be much better, you only need to install Ember CLI and everything is put together for you.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#150
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rewriting your front-end in a new webframework every 6 weeks isn't a thing that actually happens I don't think any sane person would rewrite their apps everytime a new flavor of the month tool came out, but all this technical churn must make maintenance a nightmare.

It doesn't make any additional maintenance unless you chose to rewrite your pre-existing projects when any new random thing comes out.

I call BS on this. Even something as basic as react and react-dom causes massive headaches on incremental updates.
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