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FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

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Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#141
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a thing? I'm running Slackware and mounting a disk is still done with good ol' `mount`, same as it ever was.

I've been in the linux world for less than a decade, and I miss 'mount' being useful. It's full of spam now - so I've started using 'lsblk' instead... $ mount | wc -l 32 $ lsblk NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT sda 8:0 0 698.7G 0 disk ├─sda1 8:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi ├─sda2 8:2 0 690.3G 0 part / └─sda3 8:3 0 7.9G 0 part [SWAP] # this was a mistake... sr0 11:0 1 1024M 0 rom

Cool! I didn't know about `lsblk`. Thanks!

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#142
post #137

FreeBSD is not 'just another OS out there' but an important piece of technology powering lots of things we often use: from Sony's PlayStation and WhatsApp, through Netflix and Yahoo, to Juniper and PFSense networking gear and EMC storage and FreeNAS appliance - and many, many more! So, have you donated yet? We need FreeBSD and FreeBSD needs your support! https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/

What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on. It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream wi…

> What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on.

You should not be, because this is what BSD license is for; otherwise the developers would've chosen GPL.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#143
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on. It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream wi…

> What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on. You should not be, because this is what BSD license is for; otherwise the developers would've chosen GPL.

I agree that's what it's for, I just don't think that's a good thing.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#144
post #37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! FreeBSD wifi person here! * ath(4)'s 11n support is much, much better now. All the AR93xx/AR95xx PCIe devices are supported and STA/AP 11n should work great. * iwn(4)'s 11n is much, much better. It still has some warts, and I'd love some help in chasing them down. * urtwn(4) in -HEAD does 11n now. * rsu(4) in -HEAD does 11n now. * iwm(4) (intel 7260, etc) is getting better every day in freebsd and dragonflybsd. T…

Thank you for your efforts! This is great. I personally don't know a ton about wireless but am not opposed to digging in and contributing or testing when/if I have time/hardware. Which leads me to a question: what about 11ac is revolutionary if it's just a few bits away from a completed 11n codebase? Just curious.

11ac adds to 11n. you have new channel widths, instead of just 20 and 40. It's 20, 40, 80, 80+80, 160.

You have MCS0->9, and then you have 1->n spatial streams. It's like 11n, but they didn't make the MCS numbers just keep going up above MCS15, MCS23, etc. Negotiation is easier - you have to do MCS0..7, then you can say whether you also do 8 and 9.

Everything is block-acked when you negotatiate it - even individual frames. It still negotiates AMPDU and AMSDU like 11n, but then everything is BA'ed versus 11n where some frames are and some frames aren't. The 11ac AMPDU is almost the same as 11n, but it adjusts the maximum AMPDU sizes to be much bigger.

It's still MIMO, and you can implement multi-user MIMO when you're ready. You don't have to out of the gate. This makes it easier to do basic 11ac bringup before you have to do more useful optional bits. There are some extra IEs to handle in beacons, probe request/resp, etc, which isn't all that scary.

The trouble(!) is it kinda forces one to tidy up their 11n codebase first. The way we represent channels in net80211, for example. We have one channel for each PHY type and frequency - so, say channel 36. There's 36/a, 36/ht20, 36/ht40. For 1, it's 1/b, 1/g, 1/ht20, 1/ht40. For 11ac we're going to have to add say, 36/vht20, 36/vht40, 36/vht80. Now, 80+80 becomes painful because the other 80MHz slice can be anywhere and that's not easily represented without a massive explosion in the number of channels. So, how channels are fetched/accessed/etc needs to be changed.

There's also the situation where we currently support a "global" channel for a device, rather than one channel per vap, separate scanning state per VAP for full offload devices, etc. That has to change for full offload devices (iwn, iwm, ath10k, rsu, etc) which can do scans in firmware without the stack being involved.

Linux mac80211/cfg80211 solved this with the concept of "channel contexts" - they used to do exactly what we did in net80211 (one channel struct entry per PHY type + channel combo) but fixed it when 11ac came along. Every driver needed modification, so that's going to take some time to plan out and implement.

There's also some tidying up to do with notifying the upper layers about frames. Eg - NICs does AMSDU offload now in the 11ac world. AMSDU is multiple MSDUs in one frame - ie, multiple ethernet frames in a single 802.11 frame. So, you have to tag received frames with some information that states it's a de-cap'ed AMSDU frame with the sequence number, crypto info, etc of the single big 802.11 frame you received. This is problematic because the stack right now expects each frame to have its own sequence number, crypto IV, etc and does duplication detection. I just started committing some newer pieces to the net80211 RX path so we can handle cases like this when AMSDU offload happens - which is very soon now.

So yeah, it's "a few bits away", but since the four of us actively doing wifi stuff in FreeBSD are unpaid volunteers, things happen at the rate of spare time. If you're interested in learning about this stuff and aren't afraid of a C compiler than hit me up (adrian@freebsd.org) and let's hack on this.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#145
post #44
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! FreeBSD wifi person here! * ath(4)'s 11n support is much, much better now. All the AR93xx/AR95xx PCIe devices are supported and STA/AP 11n should work great. * iwn(4)'s 11n is much, much better. It still has some warts, and I'd love some help in chasing them down. * urtwn(4) in -HEAD does 11n now. * rsu(4) in -HEAD does 11n now. * iwm(4) (intel 7260, etc) is getting better every day in freebsd and dragonflybsd. T…

> Chipsets I won't be working on: USB chipsets, in particular the AR7010+AR9280, AR9271 or the AR9170 chipset Any plans to support these in the future?

maaaaaaaybe.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't mind at all, but what would the relevant configuration files be? As I said, there was no fiddling necessary. The only thing I remember doing is putting `echo kern.vty=vt >> /boot/loader.conf`.

vt is the default anyway! (At least on EFI)

That is on 11.0. AFAIK it wasn't in prior releases.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#147
post #139
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most times yes. In practice I suspect most deployed servers have something like ln -sf /usr/local/bin/bash /bin/bash Infinitely more entertaining is running unzip at the command prompt results in /usr/bin/unzip which is extremely limited compared to (installed via pkg) infozip at /usr/local/bin/unzip. At least one specific example I ran into was Play/Activate Scala framework can be convinced via "dist" target to make…

> Lack of a Debian-like alternatives system is really the only systemic problem I run into on a regular basis. We'll, there's always Debian/kFreeBSD for that...

Its likely easier to implement a debian-like alternatives system (by hand or by ansible with symlinks if necessary) than to turn a Debian/SystemD non-unix into something unix-like such as Freebsd. Or Freebsd is much closer to what I want, than Debian, so logically it would be easier to change a little bit of Freebsd than a whole lot of Debian.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#148
post #147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lack of a Debian-like alternatives system is really the only systemic problem I run into on a regular basis. We'll, there's always Debian/kFreeBSD for that...

Its likely easier to implement a debian-like alternatives system (by hand or by ansible with symlinks if necessary) than to turn a Debian/SystemD non-unix into something unix-like such as Freebsd. Or Freebsd is much closer to what I want, than Debian, so logically it would be easier to change a little bit of Freebsd than a whole lot of Debian.

Of course, Debian/kFreeBSD is an ambitious project - and probably not what you want if you would rather run FreeBSD -- but Debian/kFreeBSD already exists (I'm not sure of the status of Stretch and/or support for the FreeBSD 11 kernel etc):

https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#149
post #137

FreeBSD is not 'just another OS out there' but an important piece of technology powering lots of things we often use: from Sony's PlayStation and WhatsApp, through Netflix and Yahoo, to Juniper and PFSense networking gear and EMC storage and FreeNAS appliance - and many, many more! So, have you donated yet? We need FreeBSD and FreeBSD needs your support! https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/

What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on. It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream wi…

> It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream with no obligations whatsoever.

It's obvious that FreeBSD contributors picked FreeBSD over Linux because they wanted to publish their software for people to use with no obligations whatsoever.

If Sony is heavily modifying the FreeBSD code, eventually they'll start contributing back, because maintaining a substantial fork is more effort than upstreaming code. Either that, or they'll end up with a largely frozen code base like Apple's copy of the FreeBSD userland, which is probably OK on a console.

Re: FreeBSD 11.0 Now Available

#150
post #149
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really makes me sad is that the BSD license allows corporate leeches like Sony to create incredibly successful and valuable products like the PS4 without ever having to give back to the project that produced the software they rely on. It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream wi…

> It's obvious that Sony picked FreeBSD over Linux because they don't have to publish their additions to FreeBSD, and can continue to integrate new and improved code from upstream with no obligations whatsoever. It's obvious that FreeBSD contributors picked FreeBSD over Linux because they wanted to publish their software for people to use with no obligations whatsoever. If Sony is heavily modifying the FreeBSD code,…

> Either that, or they'll end up with a largely frozen code base like Apple's copy of the FreeBSD userland, which is probably OK on a console.

I think this is what they've settled on and are quite happy with.

For PS5 they'll likely do another from-scratch adaptation of whatever the then-current FreeBSD is.

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