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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#141

Post by Tharkun »

vvpan wrote: post #110
Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

That is unrealistic and has very bad consequences on the neighborhood. I've heard urban planners (in lectures) say that when there is not a row of parked cars between a street and the sidewalk, people are much less likely to walk and spend time there. So, for example, businesses close along a street when parking is suddenly prohibited. And, as others pointed out, in most cities it is unrealistic due to how little par…

That's hilariously silly. Based on what? Their own love of cars? Research in car-centric communities?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#142

Post by jacquesm »

Tharkun wrote: post #138
jacquesm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can legally split hairs about it. But the practical upshot is that if you're involved in an accident with a cyclist as a motorist it is extremely likely that you will be held responsible. That the actual law is more complex is obvious from the 'more or less' bit in the sentence above, it's not black and white but in the vast majority of accidents between cars and cyclists the driver of the car will be held r…

Makes sense, no? You're driving around in a 1000kg death-machine with an engine powerful enough to be countend in the order of a hundred horses. Don't you think that being extremely cautious is the least any driver should be doing?

Yes, it makes sense, and yes, I agree that being extremely cautious is the least any driver should be doing. If I gave you the impression that that is not the case then I apologize.

I'm both an avid cyclist and I drive a lot so I'm pretty aware as a driver of what my responsibilities towards more vulnerable traffic are. The same goes for interactions between cars and motorcyclists.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#144

Post by Tharkun »

wtbob wrote: post #63
tschellenbach wrote: post #35

Cycling here in Boulder is definitely much more dangerous compared to The Netherlands. A lot of cars turn right without checking for bikes. What's up with that? On the other hand the bike sharing program here in Boulder is the best I've ever seen. (I'm Dutch and live in Boulder, Colorado)

> A lot of cars turn right without checking for bikes. What's up with that? Why are you to the right of the turning lane? If you are a vehicle, act like a (slow-moving, natch) vehicle: get in the right-most through lane, and hold it.

That obviously depends on the infrastructure. If the bike lane is an actual bike lane, then cars turning right should wait until cyclist are done crossing the road. Please don't assume your system is universal: it's broken and it's not.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#145

Post by jknoepfler »

smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

I love your country's approach to bikes.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#146

Post by Qantourisc »

In Belgium we don't have a word for doored either. But we don't use our right hand, we are just learned to look and make sure we are not going to smack someone of their bike. Also often the lane next to you is a car-lane. As such you also learn not to swing open your door wildly, as you might loose your door ;)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#147

Post by seszett »

jacquesm wrote: post #73
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

That's a pretty good list. Another major reason imo is that in an accident between a cyclist and a car the car is more or less automatically liable.

In France as well. Yet, if you go to the police station after a bike accident they will most likely refuse to take your claim unless you look seriously injured, and as long as the car did stop the police will just tell you to contact your insurance (which will do little more than reimbursing half the used value of your bike if you still have the invoice, after asking for a deductible amount several times that).

I'm sure it's better in the Netherlands, but just making cars liable isn't a solution itself.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#148

Post by et-al »

inimino wrote: post #67
msandford wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I completely agree that being aggressively paranoid is the way to stay alive. But agreeing that it is the sm…

It's a fact that we have to live in the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. Tips for surviving as a cyclist are not incompatible with trying to change things, but one may make the world a better place in twenty years while the other keeps you alive today. The trouble is when people behave as though that world already existed. It may be frustrating, but people absolutely are ignorant and lazy and that absol…

This.

The problem is that a lot people bring the same level of self-centeredness to biking as they do to driving. Same bad habits and assuming the fault is on someone else.

Yes, operating a 2-ton vehicle is a giant responsibility. But as a biker, to expect that 2-ton vehicle to magically disobey the laws of physics and stop for you is just as careless. Give cars space, and maybe don't be in a car's blind spot at an intersection. Have you seen the number of people trying to squeeze by a bus on Market Street? Why?

(I say this as someone who's biked in SF for 7 years and stayed alive because I understand that it's dangerous to bike in this city. It would be lovely to live in a Dutch wonderland, but we live in the U.S. of fucking A., where everyone's got to be somewhere before someone else, so one needs to bike defensively here.)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#149

Post by tiku »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

As a dutch biker I would only wear a helmet when mountain-biking. The rest of the roads are very flat, we don't have much inclines. And our bikes are mostly in good condition, good brakes etc. In the cities people tend to have worse bikes because of theft but speed is lower there, so less danger. And last but not least, we have bike lanes, so you just wont come across cars regularly, a car has to ignore red lights to come in contact with bikes, so accidents are not that common.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#150

Post by cateye »

Bullshit article: the rule that everyone learns is to check your mirror and double check by looking over your shoulder. I have never heard of the right hand rule.

It gets a habit because the chances are pretty high because of narrow roads and a lot of other traffic behind you.

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