Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea • Hacker News Board

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#141

Post by nickff » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 1:56 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #59

This is a mess because Hanjin's top management was in denial about the possibility of bankruptcy. Just like the typical startup. They've been trying for months to get a bailout deal from somebody, anybody - a merger, loans, their parent chaebol, their stockholders (Korean Air is the largest), or the S. Korean government. Everybody turned them down. There's too much container ship capacity right now; nobody needed Han…

Maybe they knew things were going to end badly, and hoped that making sure they were not organized for bankruptcy could get them bailed out. This could be a result of the bank bailouts.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#142

Post by Tinyyy » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:03 AM UTC

ansible wrote: post #83

mhurron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And leading us back to a time of poor nutrition for large parts of the world that currently rely on shipping to bring fresh and varied food.

Fresh food is better than preserved food, I won't argue that. But people got by with preserved food for a long, long time. We've gotten used to eating fruits and such out of season, but maybe that's going to get expensive again.

People lived without medicine for a long time too, I'm not sure if we want to live in those days though.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#143

Post by grapehut » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:24 AM UTC

FWIW the person you're replying to represents everything that is bad about HN. If you read his post history you'd be lead to believe he's an industry insider in: Shipping, Irrigation, Crypto Currencies, Genetics, Nano Technology, Manufacturing, Microkernels and a lot more if you keep going back.

There was a time I believed his posts, until I read one of his mini-essays on a topic I happened to know about (cryptography) and it was painful obvious that it was someone who spent 10 minutes googling the topic and took it upon themselves to give a dangerously incorrect "authoritative" lay of the land. Since then I've tagged those people as "faux experts". I don't blame him, I did the same thing for high-school essays, albeit with a more jilted writing style. Just be careful who and what you believe

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#144

Post by walrus01 » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:43 AM UTC

prodigal_erik wrote: post #119

bkor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They arrested the vessel on order of a bunker supply company at Panama Canal. See http://www.maritimelawcenter.com/html/arrest_of_vessel.html .

Does this mean the ship received fuel oil that isn't paid for? Like tackling a shoplifter on a grand scale?

basically, yes, in most developed countries ships are provided with large amounts of fuel oil (bunker fuel) on credit, trusting that the large shipping company will pay in the very near future by wire transfer. In really sketchy 3rd world locations ships have to use cash from the captain's safe to buy fuel. If a ship is delinquent in its account with the local fuel supplier, the fuel supplier will file something in their local admiralty court for what is essentially a lien to seize the ship.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#145

Post by rb808 » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:46 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #59

This is a mess because Hanjin's top management was in denial about the possibility of bankruptcy. Just like the typical startup. They've been trying for months to get a bailout deal from somebody, anybody - a merger, loans, their parent chaebol, their stockholders (Korean Air is the largest), or the S. Korean government. Everybody turned them down. There's too much container ship capacity right now; nobody needed Han…

Uh does that mean I shouldn't get the new Samsung TV in looking at, best to wait a few months?

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#146

Post by walrus01 » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:47 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #24

mathgenius wrote: post #14

Amazing that this happens on top of such low prices for crude oil. What's going on? EDIT: Yes I read the article. Seriously, oil is so cheap and this still happened? It's just mind boggling to me.

A lot more cargo is getting shipped by rail to Europe from China with new tracks being opened up through Central Asia. Also, energy pipelines are getting set up between Russia and China, reducing the need to ship crude oil. This is largely due to the "One Belt, One Road" initiative that China is working on. It's basically a plan to build transport infrastructure all throughout Asia.

The amount of cargo that moves (in terms of number of TEUs per month) from China to Europe via rail is minuscule compared to the ocean cargo capacity. A train full of double stacked containers is a tiny fraction of the capacity of one medium sized 8000 TEU ship.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#147

Post by prawn » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:53 AM UTC

grapehut wrote: post #143

FWIW the person you're replying to represents everything that is bad about HN. If you read his post history you'd be lead to believe he's an industry insider in: Shipping, Irrigation, Crypto Currencies, Genetics, Nano Technology, Manufacturing, Microkernels and a lot more if you keep going back. There was a time I believed his posts, until I read one of his mini-essays on a topic I happened to know about (cryptograph…

And all written on HN for karma. They should write it on their own blog and try monetising it.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#148

Post by dsfyu404ed » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 3:13 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #138

tehwebguy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? You can work out a fee with all of the recipients that covers maybe all of your cost. Plus, free boat!

Plus, free boat! Nothing free about boats. Best two days of your life: the day you buy a boat, and the day you sell it.

I recall a certain proverb about an expensive, wet hole.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#149

Post by bbcbasic » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 3:18 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #138

tehwebguy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? You can work out a fee with all of the recipients that covers maybe all of your cost. Plus, free boat!

Plus, free boat! Nothing free about boats. Best two days of your life: the day you buy a boat, and the day you sell it.

If it flies or floats, better to rent it.

Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea

#150

Post by bbcbasic » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 3:24 AM UTC

gbin wrote: post #131

What about this idea of a business plan ? buy 5 of those ships very cheap, get rid of/deliver the goods, merge them in international waters nearby San Francisco, make a top notch/self sustaining mix of offices and Corp housing on top of them. Anybody could work there waiting for their H1B or just simply contracting or bootstrapping their companies.

How about we find a way to transmit data packets across the globe so that people who do digital jobs can work from a nice place that suits them, anywhere in the world.