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Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

juliareda.eu

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Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#141

Post by johnnyhillbilly »

smsm42 wrote: post #80
nitrogen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human right: neutral communications Nice thing: iPhone 6+ Human right: freedom of movement Nice thing: Maserati See the difference? --- As for your second part about localization of politics, the tyranny of the majority is much more severe in hyper-local settings. Global issues like human rights cannot be entrusted to local governments whose local majorities are prone to divisiveness and discrimination.

> Global issues like human rights cannot be entrusted to local governments Who they can be entrusted to? There's a lot of countries with severe human rights issues, and I don't see many examples of super-governmental bodies having much progress in fixing them unless local government is on board with it. In fact, it's almost always impossible to do without local government participation.

To put the "universal" in the declaration of human rights in its context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_R...

These countries each take part in the UN, without showing any signs that they respect the universal human rights declaration.

I'd suggest fixing that part of the human rights situation should have a higher priority than making monopolist abuse and unfair trade in communications about human rights.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#142

Post by headmelted »

markonthewall wrote: post #39
headmelted wrote: post #30

It encourages me to see that the European court at least has some people on it that seem to understand that net neutrality is in fact a human rights issue. And this is why Brexit is so heart-breaking. I'm surrounded by people in my personal life who think it's a fantastic idea, but they're not the most... informed? Likewise for local politicians. (Side note to my rant: I have this theory that the rise of the iPhone,…

Those are candy-bars to make you happy, just like the EHRC is keeping the leftists in line while we slowly shift toward an ordoliberal paradigm at the european level. For countries like France, Italy and even Germany, that means social regression and harmonisation by the bottom. >Yes, I would rather have decisions made by people in Brussels that understand what they're doing. Yay structural unemployment in the eurozo…

I've given a similar response below to a different comment, and it would be a bit pointless to paste it here.

To summarize though:

1) I don't believe I know any better than anyone else, it's just that I feel this was the wrong decision for a variety of reasons, and I'm very scared for the future based on this result.

2) I am a smug jackass that knows significantly less than he thinks he does, and I use long words in a futile attempt to disguise this. But I am not a pseudo smart-ass. Frank that works across from me is, and no-one sits with Frank at lunch.

3) I think the EU makes terrible decisions. I just think that they try to make the correct ones with the best of intentions and fail. I think this is vastly preferable to making the wrong decisions for questionable reasons and succeeding.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#143

Post by nothis »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7
nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Happens in Austria with Drei.

https://www.drei.at/portal/de/privat/services-und-apps/zusae...

"Kein Datenverbrauch" == Zero Rating.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#144

Post by rhino369 »

nordify wrote: post #125
rhino369 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't write that comment, but in my opinion net neutrality is mostly a solution in search of a problem. Hypothetically, ISPs could try extorting and controlling the entire internet, but realistically it's not going to work. I'm more concerned about app neutrality. Apple is extorting 30% from app makers and enforces rules to ensure their dominance over my phone.

> I didn't write that comment, but in my opinion net neutrality is mostly a solution in search of a problem. Net neutrality is (partial) remedy for lack of competition. Cure that and a lot of the reasons for net neutrality disappear. However, it is not realistic to expect true competition in the US telecoms market anytime soon. One reason a lot of people see net neutrality as a solution in search of a problem is that…

Can you sideload on Apple without jail breaking?

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#145

Post by nordify »

rhino369 wrote: post #144
nordify wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't write that comment, but in my opinion net neutrality is mostly a solution in search of a problem. Net neutrality is (partial) remedy for lack of competition. Cure that and a lot of the reasons for net neutrality disappear. However, it is not realistic to expect true competition in the US telecoms market anytime soon. One reason a lot of people see net neutrality as a solution in search of a problem is that…

Can you sideload on Apple without jail breaking?

Yes, either via an enterprise certificate or via a free developer account. Especially in China they are big on sideloading via enterprise certificates :)

Yes, I know it's not ideal, but at least it's possible.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#146

Post by nordify »

objectivistbrit wrote: post #136
Nullabillity wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of thinly veiled extortion is exactly why harsher regulation is required.

Right, saying "we won't invest under these conditions" is extortion. On a sane planet, one not following clown world logic, it would be obvious that the telcos are telling the government to stop extorting them.

I feel I missed something. How is the government extorting the telcos?

The telcos are of course under no obligation to invest in 5G. Do you know of any 4G provider that isn't?

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#147

Post by TillE »

DasIch wrote: post #46
heinrichhartman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not likely going to happen nore is it a sensible thing to ask for. As an ISP how would you _guarantee_ the bandwidth for each endpoint? You would have to provision for the maximal capacity all over your network. Given that most people only utilize their channel 1% of the time, this is a huge waste! What's sensible to ask ISPs to do is: (a) Communicate historically experienced bandwith at each region (b) Provid…

At the moment at least in Germany you have ISPs advertising bandwidths and even selling contracts with bandwidth that can never be reached not because they don't have the capacity but because it's not possible to reach them given the technology in the ground. We're currently in place that is completely unacceptable towards customers. Now you don't have to go completely in the other direction but when you advertise an…

Right, they give you a discount when your max speed is below a certain level. But they really should have the data on hand to provide you with an approximate maximum speed along with their availability check before you buy.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#148

Post by whybroke »

objectivistbrit wrote: post #140
whybroke wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which goals would those be? An efficient tariff free zone? A larger area for individual opportunity? A reasonable social safety net? Greater power on the global stage? Protection for human rights? Or is the objection merely to some wholly imaginary threat to the purity of the anglo-saxon race and culture and an unthinking and instantaneous embracing of anything nationalist and right leaning?

"Or is the objection merely to some wholly imaginary threat to the purity of the anglo-saxon race and culture and an unthinking and instantaneous embracing of anything nationalist and right leaning?" Yes. Yes it is. Everyone who disagrees with you is emotionally driven and intellectually dishonest. The goal we object to was the attempt to build a giant country. The EEC should have stuck with the tariff free zone and…

> The goal we object to was the attempt to build a giant country.

Why?

Honestly, how would that be bad? After all the UK consists of Wales, England, Scotland and N. Ireland. People of the past opposed that unity so much they were willing to die to try to prevent it yet on the whole that unity has been undeniably positive.

For the EU for example, how could having an single foreign policy be a bad idea in any way? How does having an EU flag do any harm what so ever? I'd claim that point in particular shows the issue very much is emotionally driven.

And what will make it fall apart except people voting to leave it on grounds as trivial as having a flag?

Likewise such an extreme step as dismantling the entire EU project rather than just fixing the monetary problem can't really be justified rationally and looks pretty overwhelmingly like emotionally driven nationalism.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#149

Post by Dylan16807 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #71
Swizec wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an ISP how would you _guarantee_ the bandwidth for each endpoint? When I still lived in Slovenia, I had 20/20 FTTH. Fiber went directly into a router in my bedroom. My bandwidth was always exactly 20/20. No matter what. Now I have Comcast. Speedtest says I get 80/6. On Friday and Saturday evenings Netflix and Facebook and many other things often experience issues. Now I can't confirm any of this. If you run spee…

> My bandwidth was always exactly 20/20. No matter what. This can't possibly be true. The ISP providing the service can only guarantee a particular speed to the boarder of their network. Once you connect to a service not hosted by your ISP they can't guarantee anything.

There's a difference between "they guaranteed it to be that 100.000000% of the time" and "in practice, it actually was that the entire time". The latter can definitely be true.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#150

Post by lugg »

WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #76
komali2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Comcast video streaming service is not in the same category as Netflix, Hulu because...." Back to square 1.

Nope; that would simply be challenged in court.

Really, who is going to challenge the difference between Netflix and torrents.

Both video. Both serve the end user in the same way.

But nobody will challenge it because nobody is in charge of torrents.

This kills neutrality completely. There is no way those ruling over this know where to draw the category lines properly.

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