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23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

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Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#141

Post by burfog »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #119
dgacmu wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sarcastic tone of your response suggests that you're expecting me to be an idiot and/or a hypochondriac. I may or may not be a typical 23andme customer (and wasn't suggesting I was), but we had very specific, actionable reasons for using their services: Of course we didn't do a second scan, that would be silly. My wife carries some recessive genes for inherited conditions common among Ashkenazi jews, and because…

>Of course we didn't do a second scan, that would be silly... I don't know half of my ancestry, we simply wanted to confirm that I was negative for them Oh god I hope you are not serious. These services are not clinical diagnostic tests and shouldn't be used as such for a thousand different reasons. Genetic counseling is serious business. It should be administered by a trained professional in a medical setting. The r…

"trained professional in a medical setting [...] trained professional."

This implies that you oppose testing, because with those expenses it's just not happening. Nobody likes to pay a 4-digit sum to look at a dozen spots on the genome, and then another test and another 4-digit sum to look at a few more (separate office visit of course), and then again...

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#142

Post by burfog »

nisa wrote: post #38
aub3bhat wrote: post #6

So on one side journalists lament lack of new drug development & just the shoddy state of healthcare tech, while as soon as any new data that can potentially unlock new drug targets (23andMe) or provider better support (Google DeepMind Health) is introduced, Such efforts are quickly demonized with spread of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Rather than asking important questions such as at which level the "aggregate" data…

I don't feel particularly happy seeing a private profit oriented corporation having the DNA data and the results of analysis for millions of people and establishing a market dealing with this data. In the end it's your life, your defects that could be on sale and determine your worth in a capitalist society. This is scary because you fate is determined by your birth and some algorithmus that may or may not be correct…

I really wanted to use 23andme, but they actually prohibit anonymous usage. I know of no place that offers the service I want, which is at minimum like 23andme with anonymity. Add the old-style medical stuff and/or full sequencing for bonus points.

The ideal would be that I can have a friend pay cash in a physical store to get the kit. There is no account. The package includes an ID code that I may look up on the web site to get results, obviously browsing over Tor from borrowed wireless.

Currently, it looks like I'd have to actually buy the equipment myself and sequence my own DNA at home.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#143

Post by eggie »

jomamaxx wrote: post #136
JulianMorrison wrote: post #114

It's ridiculous to be stingy with your DNA information. You're dropping that stuff all over any sofa you sit on. It's not you (any more than your twin is you) and it's not yours in any proprietorial sense, it's just data. Chill and let the nice scientists study it. So far as I'm concerned, if they can use my information to help study medical stuff, it's entirely cool by me.

That's great, but it's your choice. Also - that my DNA is on my sofa does not mean it's being published, sold, and used for purposes beyond my expectations.

You're forgetting the other point that the poster made, that your DNA is no more yours than your grandparents', or cousins, or any other ancestor or distant relative that shares bits of their genome with you.

By the way, we are all related, and virtually everything in you is not unique. There are maybe 50-100 point mutations out of 6 billion that are unique to you.

And anyway, what's the point of your genome unless you can compare it to others. So, share already. We're all just remixes of each other.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#144

Post by jomamaxx »

eggie wrote: post #143
jomamaxx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, but it's your choice. Also - that my DNA is on my sofa does not mean it's being published, sold, and used for purposes beyond my expectations.

You're forgetting the other point that the poster made, that your DNA is no more yours than your grandparents', or cousins, or any other ancestor or distant relative that shares bits of their genome with you. By the way, we are all related, and virtually everything in you is not unique. There are maybe 50-100 point mutations out of 6 billion that are unique to you. And anyway, what's the point of your genome unless y…

"You're forgetting the other point that the poster made, that your DNA is no more yours than your grandparents', or cousins, or any other ancestor or distant relative that shares bits of their genome with you."

No, my DNA is distinct from theirs, and it's 'mine'. :)

Those 50-100 points identify me, uniquely.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#147

Post by biomcgary »

jacquesm wrote: post #138
biomcgary wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am friends with some academic researchers that recently completed a study with 23andMe. My friends designed the experiment, 24andMe researches applied their design to the data and reported the statistical outcome. For their field, the results had the most significance seen yet for the phenotype studied. The genetic variants identified in the study will now go into further testing to understand the mechanisms by whi…

Link to the paper?

Sorry, the paper is not yet published, which is why I have been a little vague in describing it.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#148

Post by bduerst »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #135
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was their profit model was collecting premiums from a very large number of customers, while only paying out a relatively small number of claims.

Adding to this comment, that's exactly why your rates go up when you get in an accident. Your "trustworthiness" has gone down and the insurance company might have to spend more on you in the long run.

So the logic is that insurance companies intentionally cause accidents for their members, in order to increase premiums and increase their costs?

That doesn't make any sense.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#149

Post by bduerst »

ams6110 wrote: post #134
eli wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(As an aside, it is already illegal in the US to deny someone a job or insurance because of their DNA)

It's not illegal to deny life insurance, AFAIK. And in many cases that's more important than health insurance. If I'm stricken with a terminal illness, health insurance won't do much for me. Life insurance could mean the difference between my family being OK or really struggling.

I'm not sure how that's relevant on meta data. Life insurance typically requires that you disclose up front if you have a terminal illness, and even if you do they can give you a graded life insurance policy.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#150

Post by colejohnson66 »

bduerst wrote: post #148
colejohnson66 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this comment, that's exactly why your rates go up when you get in an accident. Your "trustworthiness" has gone down and the insurance company might have to spend more on you in the long run.

So the logic is that insurance companies intentionally cause accidents for their members, in order to increase premiums and increase their costs? That doesn't make any sense.

No. My point was that insurance company's profit model is making most of their money off people who don't have accidents and spending some of that on people who do. To recoup the loss after an accident, the insurance company will raise your rate. They're spending more on you, so they want some more from you.

Causing accidents to increase premiums would be pointless and actually cause them to lose money (premiums are almost never more than the actual cost of an accident).

Think of it this way: You have 5 people who pay $100 a month. After 3 months ($1500 profit), Alice causes an accident that costs $500. The insurance company pays for $400 of that and raises Alice's premium by $25. Now, their profit for those 3 months is $1100, but they're also now making $125 a month. That $400 insurance payout is paid for from Alice, Bob, Charlie, David, and Eve's insurance payments totaling $80/person/(3months).

Raised copays are the reason some people don't submit claims. It's a question of "Do I want to pay $300 now, or an extra $25 a month for 2 or 3 years?"

But to say that their profit model is based around causing accidents or paying as little as possible is a complete lie. Sure, insurance companies can be greedy, but their profit model is making money off people who don't have accidents. Paying lesser amounts is just an added "bonus" they get when accidents happen. It's greedy, but that's not the profit model.

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