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Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

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Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#141

Post by marshray »

tptacek wrote: post #140
marshray wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's so important about Appelbaum that he'd be a state-level target? Uh, maybe because he could roll over on Assange? I have personally witnessed mysterious people engage Jake in conversation, try repeatedly to get him to admit to committing fraud in the course of his security research, and even try to literally hand him incriminating evidence presumably to get his prints upon it.

What does "roll over on Assange" mean? What is it that Appelbaum would know about Assange that would mean anything to any government anywhere? There are quite a lot of people in the security research field (or whatever you want to call it) that really dislike Appelbaum, so I am not at all surprised that he gets messed with.

> What does "roll over on Assange" mean?

Testify against him. Have you never seen a cop show? :-)

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#142

Post by y7 »

devishard wrote: post #139

Quite frankly, why is this on Hacker News? Maybe Jacob Appelbaum raped someone, maybe he didn't. That's not anyone's business except Appelbaum's, his accusers', and the legal system's. It certainly is not a public concern, and it's irrelevant to Tor.

I found it interesting to read. Appelbaum is relatively well-known in tech circles, and I use HN to keep me updated on "what goes on in tech circles" -- whether that's gossip or new technological developments.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#143

Post by tptacek »

marshray wrote: post #141
tptacek wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "roll over on Assange" mean? What is it that Appelbaum would know about Assange that would mean anything to any government anywhere? There are quite a lot of people in the security research field (or whatever you want to call it) that really dislike Appelbaum, so I am not at all surprised that he gets messed with.

> What does "roll over on Assange" mean? Testify against him. Have you never seen a cop show? :-)

For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump?

I ask because Assange seems to be just about as implicated in the Manning leak as it is possible to be without being Chelsea Manning, and it's still unclear (read: unlikely) that any of that involvement leaves him culpable for any crime in the US.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#144

Post by draw_down »

rue wrote: post #116
powera wrote: post #54

This Medium post summarizes my take on this statement better than I can. TLDR "I can’t directly say the allegations are false." https://medium.com/@frabyn/decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060...

That dissection is pretty poorly made. First, the author “paraphrases” Applebaum’s use of “vicious and spurious”: > I can’t directly say the allegations are false. Then, a few lines below, the author quotes Applebaum as saying: >> I want to be clear: the accusations of criminal sexual misconduct against me are entirely false. I’m not taking sides here (it’s important that possible abuse is brought to light!) but this…

Nope, when he says the word "false" it's specifically in reference to criminal sexual misconduct. Read carefully, because that was written carefully.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#145

Post by wonkaWonka »

tptacek wrote: post #79
Chris2048 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While conspiracy theory is a risky proposition, in this case the agencies involved are known for such things. COINTELPRO, prism etc, so it's no entirely implausible to raise such concerns.

First: no, this is not plausible. Second, a question: exactly what is it that people think Jacob Appelbaum did to make him Public Enemy #1 of any government? He's not an especially important Tor contributor. Tor is not only funded by the US Government, but it began as a project at the Naval Research Lab. He's a spokesperson for Wikileaks, and Wikileaks has gotten itself engaged in serious legal issues with the US Gov…

  Which community would that be?
Being an insightful guy and a good public speaker has value. Especially in a technical field. Your talks on things like elliptic curve cryptography are solid talks. Like it or not, you could probably trade on giving those kinds of talks alone, and never have gotten your hands dirty doing the work, to prove the theory correct in your own mind.

It's not hand-wavey to be able to give a voice to ideas, provide insight through speaking and interacting with a crowd, and people make careers off of this sort of activity in many fields, and not just technology. It's the same sort of dichotomy you'll see in other hard sciences, where there are experimentalists and theorists.

So he's not shocking audiences by injecting malicious payloads and keylogging the shit out of people, or deploying wi-fi pineapples or pen testing corporate clients. There are other vectors into the field, and sometimes skill sets are multi-disciplinary Venn diagrams.

You'd suggest that he's a Paris Hilton, but there's more to it than that.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#146

Post by marshray »

tptacek wrote: post #143
marshray wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does "roll over on Assange" mean? Testify against him. Have you never seen a cop show? :-)

For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump? I ask because Assange seems to be just about as implicated in the Manning leak as it is possible to be without being Chelsea Manning, and it's still unclear (read: unlikely) that…

> For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of?

Seriously? https://www.google.com/?q=wikileaks+grand+jury

> Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world?

Presumably most people are not in a position to testify in an ongoing investigation.

> Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump?

How would I know? What does this even have to do with it?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#147

Post by tptacek »

marshray wrote: post #146
tptacek wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump? I ask because Assange seems to be just about as implicated in the Manning leak as it is possible to be without being Chelsea Manning, and it's still unclear (read: unlikely) that…

> For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Seriously? https://www.google.com/?q=wikileaks+grand+jury > Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Presumably most people are not in a position to testify in an ongoing investigation. > Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump? How would I know? What does t…

This is past silly. A faction of the USG has tried for six years to come up with a "conspiracy" charge for Assange, and failed to do so. No surprise: Assange was not legally obligated to protect the documents he received, isn't a citizen of the US, and wasn't even on US soil when he received them.

Something had to be done. That was something. They did it. Nothing came of it.

This same kind of logic is used to justify Assange not reporting back to Sweden to answer to prosecutors. "They might extradite him to the US". But legally it's even easier to extradite him from where he is now!

The reality is he's not going to be extradited.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#148

Post by marshray »

tptacek wrote: post #147
marshray wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Seriously? https://www.google.com/?q=wikileaks+grand+jury > Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Presumably most people are not in a position to testify in an ongoing investigation. > Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump? How would I know? What does t…

This is past silly. A faction of the USG has tried for six years to come up with a "conspiracy" charge for Assange, and failed to do so. No surprise: Assange was not legally obligated to protect the documents he received, isn't a citizen of the US, and wasn't even on US soil when he received them. Something had to be done. That was something. They did it. Nothing came of it. This same kind of logic is used to justify…

I was just sharing something curious that I observed that seemed relevant, I was not intending to have a debate about Assange and the Wikileaks prosecution.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#149

Post by bitL »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #108
bitL wrote: post #53

Seems like the only way to work on privacy projects in the future is to become voluntarily castrated...

"Don't rape anybody" is probably an easier way.

Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days my solution seems the only feasible one that can stand up in court. Guess why Linus is never allowing a lone female to be alone with him even for a few seconds?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#150

Post by daxorid »

rmeyers wrote: post #87
powera wrote: post #54

This Medium post summarizes my take on this statement better than I can. TLDR "I can’t directly say the allegations are false." https://medium.com/@frabyn/decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060...

So another one in the Tor "community" behaves irresponsibly and childish. What a surprise. Open source projects are completely ruined these days by the ballast that surrounds them and drags them down.

Projects, plural? Care to elaborate?
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