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Introducing docs.microsoft.com

docs.microsoft.com

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Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#141

Post by mistermann »

runako wrote: post #98
pionar wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on what you're looking for, there's usually only two you need: MSDN[0] and TechNet[1]. [0] https://msdn.microsoft.com/library [1] https://technet.microsoft.com/library/default.aspx

You confirm the problem in your response: "usually" "only two" That means that Google.com is still needed as the front-end to MS documentation. Ergo, it doesn't matter how many domains they use to host their documentation.

Not to mention search on MS sites essentially doesn't work (unless something has changed).

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#142

Post by Someone »

jonathanpoulter wrote: post #136
Sarang235 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have the same ehabit. I a glad I am not the only one.

Me too, anyone know why this is a thing? Such a common twitch... does it help reading?

I do not have any data on it (1) but I think it's like moving a bookmark across the page as you are reading: it makes it easier to jump from the end of one line to the start of the next one.

(1) not even on the claim that that bookmark has that effect.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#143

Post by projektfu »

My big problem reading Microsoft docs is the pattern (around Visual Basic docs?) where they put objects, properties, methods, functions, etc. in separate sections, making it hard to figure out what applies where. Are they planning to address the difficulty of getting information out of the structure at all, or are they just putting window dressing on it?

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#144

Post by piyush_soni »

infogulch wrote: post #140
sp332 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this on Firefox on Win10. And you have to hit the back button twice to go back, which happens on a lot of Microsoft sites. Edit: looks like it's being served from fyre.co, which might be blocked by adblockers?

> And you have to hit the back button twice to go back Could browsers not be smarter about this? If I'm on page A and I click a link X that redirects to B, when I click back I expect to go back to A, especially if X still redirects to B.

Browsers are already smart about that, but they also allow websites to override it, which is kind of important too. And then they can mess it up.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#145

Post by piyush_soni »

piyush_soni wrote: post #105
sp332 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this on Firefox on Win10. And you have to hit the back button twice to go back, which happens on a lot of Microsoft sites. Edit: looks like it's being served from fyre.co, which might be blocked by adblockers?

Strange. I'm using Firefox on Win7 here, but it shouldn't have been Windows difference. Will check when I go home where I have Win10.

Oh, I found out - I was looking at a following link from the original page (https://docs.microsoft.com) - which didn't have the problem. It's there on the HN linked page. These days I fix all of these annoying pages using uBlock Origin's "Element Picker mode" and hiding them.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#146

Post by antisthenes »

jonathanpoulter wrote: post #136
Sarang235 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have the same ehabit. I a glad I am not the only one.

Me too, anyone know why this is a thing? Such a common twitch... does it help reading?

I have acquired this habit from the 2 years I've spent playing Starcraft : Brood War and Starcraft 2 semi-competitively.

In the game you have to select units by dragging a box around them, and that habit has carried over to selecting text on the screen in pretty much every computer application.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question, but that would probably require a neuroscientist. It doesn't help me read personally, it just seems to be one of those repetitive tasks that slightly autistic people do.

Some of my coworkers share this habit as well, and they've never played RTS games, so it's acquired in different ways.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#147

Post by antisthenes »

sleepychu wrote: post #30
jimjimjim wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've given up completely on landscape for monitors. I've rotated my two monitors to portrait. It works for websites, but it's also ideal for programming (no more looking through a letter box at the code), reading documentation and pdf pages.

I wish this worked for games, I'd totally be a portrait user.

A triple monitor setup with 2 side monitors in portrait mode seems to be optimal these days.

That way your primary monitor can still be used to watch media and play games in the "standard" widescreen format, but your code and browser can readily be viewed on the sides.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#148

Post by scrumper »

tgb wrote: post #83
pandler wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that I'm constantly selecting the lines I'm reading I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one! I compulsively select random blocks of text: select up, select down, repeat. I definitely get annoyed with the popup-menu-on-select feature of Medium, but I feel I can hardly blame Medium for my random, compulsive habit.

So what do you guys think of HN? I get frustrated by how if I drag the selection down on HN comments, the selection will "hop" up at certain points. It's very aesthetically unpleasing, but I just need to click and drag select whatever I'm reading.

I don't mind HN, you can get all sorts of pleasing patterns of highlight by dragging down nested comment hierarchies. Extra satisfying when you get the darker 'double highlight' and you can make it pop by wiggling your fingers a bit.

This is just heaven here: http://imgur.com/asQy8v3

Look at all those lovely lines and right angles.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#149

Post by dmarlow »

Zekio wrote: post #107
acqq wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their solution appears to be actually worse than the initial state, if they simply automatically split the long pages and add "prev - next" buttons. The proper solution for them is to look at Wikipedia as an example. Tables of contents in longer articles, manually introducing the new topics or reorganizing when it's reasonable. And it's not something that can be automated. Automatic splitting of long pages to shorter…

Not to mention, it makes it harder using Ctrl + F to find information.

This ^. I often find myself clicking on "print" links on sites to make things show up on a single page so I can locate things quickly.

Re: Introducing docs.microsoft.com

#150

Post by krylon »

vezycash wrote: post #28
krylon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! When the easiest way to something on a web site is to ask Google (or some other search engine) for it, something is very wrong.

Their search capability simply sucks. Unlike google, it seems knowledge from Bing doesn't seep to other parts of the company. Windows store search also sucks. It can't handle misspellings the way Youtube and Chrome store can.

It's not just the builtin search, the way the content is organized always seem be out of line with the way my brain works.

As a reference, take a look at (if you're not familiar with it already) at PostgreSQL's manual[1]. With Postgres, I don't need to search, I can (nearly always) find what I need by scanning the table of contents by eyeball. Also, I can download the whole thing as a PDF for offline reading (or printing if I wanted to).

This is an example of the standard Microsoft should aim for. And that's just the first example I can think of off the top of my hat. FreeBSD has a great manual, too, and last time I looked, the JDK also came with very good - and well-organized - documentation. I don't think it is hard to do per se, just very tedious, but Microsoft certainly has the resources to do it if management makes it a priority.

I am sorry for ranting a little here, but the state of Microsoft's documentation is very disappointing in light of the resources they have; when I was a Linux newbie and made the mistake of asking a stupid question on a discussion board, I got flamed rather hard about not having read the documentation. I then replied - my second mistake, I guess - that apparently to Unix people, "user friendly" means "comes with more documentation than you'd ever want to read". One of the flamers replied - in a very matter of fact tone - that, yes, documentation is always good, because without documentation you're screwed eventually; with good documentation, no matter how complicated and nasty a program is, at least you have a chance. It took me many years to understand the wisdom in those words, but I think I only came to really appreciate them since I became a Windows admin.

[1]http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/index.html

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