Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry • Hacker News Board

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#141

Post by gedrap » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

omegaham wrote: post #134

gedrap wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly related, throwing food away and the expiration date is a tricky thing. My dad works at grocery store and initially, they were allowed to bring the food home once it expires for a symbolic cost (10% of the price or something). Soon after that, the employees started to hide food so that they can take it home almost for free. So it didn't last long.

Same thing happens at restaurants. If a restaurant gives away excess food to employees at the end of the night, you're guaranteeing that employees will then cook excess food to take home a shitload. As the saying goes, "This is why we can't have nice things."

>>> As the saying goes, "This is why we can't have nice things."

Nah, it's just basic human nature. Would be really naive to expect something different.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#142

Post by scurvy » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

megalodon wrote: post #135

scurvy wrote: post #93

Europeans (DHH for example) constantly brag about what great social safety nets the European countries provide for their people, and that US style charities are a waste. Implying charity money should be given to the government as tax money and let the state do their work instead. Italy has just admitted that it can't take care of its citizens' basic needs. I'm not saying it's time to eat crow, but I am saying it's ti…

What the what? Your generalizations are way out of line. You can argue about or criticize the ruling but don't use it out of context to push your own agenda.

I don't have an agenda, that's my point. I'm saying it's time for certain people to stop pushing theirs.

OK, I have an anti-agenda agenda.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#143

Post by rootlocus » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #133

I'm apparently in the minority, but, after reading the article, I still maintain that there is never a reason to steal from your fellow man. The potential for abuse due to hunger being subjective notwithstanding, there are social programs in place to accommodate the needy. Do they not have these programs in Italy? I am a very compassionate, empathetic (to a fault) person, but I just don't see the justification for th…

Beggars ask for help in the streets, but I personally can't help each and every one of them. You may be sympathetic, but how is the homeless man supposed to find you when he needs your help?

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#144

Post by panzagl » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

Sooo, what if he was stealing from a soup kitchen? Or if the prosecutor could prove that there was food available through charity? Or that the man had money, but didn't want to spend it on food? Seems like an awfully broad precedent (assuming Italian courts work the same way as US courts).

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#145

Post by ManlyElectronic » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

May be the true reason of ruling is too many people, such as refuges, preferring live in jail. All they have to do is commit a petty crime occasionally.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#146

Post by CajunAlexTrebec » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

c0nducktr wrote: post #131

CajunAlexTrebec wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy is falling apart, financially speaking. The people of Italy are suffering as a result. Nearly 50% of bank loans are non-performing (in default). The EBC is conducting a stealth bailout via Target2. Just look at the major Italian bank stocks. They are trading at deep, deep discounts. Maybe the market knows something the EBC and others don't want to admit?

People are homeless and go hungry in all countries. This isn't something that only happens in Italy. It's a worldwide issue.

Good point. On a related note, I personally cannot imagine a world where any theft is justified. Personal property rights are key in maintaining a functioning free market economy. This ruling by the court flies in the face of those rights.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#147

Post by return0 » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

hanief wrote: post #25

Reminds me of the third islamic caliph, Omar ibn Khattab, who suspend punishment for thief on famine. [1] I wonder if there is another legal presedence beside it. [1] https://books.google.co.id/books?id=ZRqe3iPwsTkC&pg=PA36&lpg...

Precedence of people not cutting off other people's hands for stealing? lots.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#148

Post by toopok4k3 » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

scurvy wrote: post #93

Europeans (DHH for example) constantly brag about what great social safety nets the European countries provide for their people, and that US style charities are a waste. Implying charity money should be given to the government as tax money and let the state do their work instead. Italy has just admitted that it can't take care of its citizens' basic needs. I'm not saying it's time to eat crow, but I am saying it's ti…

You draw a bit too many conclusions here.

Maybe he was drunk or slept during the food lines, or he just didn't give a fuck that day? Poor people can decide not to receive any help they are provided. It's not like we can throw them into a prison for being poor.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#149

Post by aninhumer » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #119

saosebastiao wrote: post #97

If you're gonna force business owners to give to the poor, why not do it through an established and equitable mechanism like taxation/redistribution, instead of subjecting select types of business owners to the whims of a mostly subjective claim? Why force the burden on a bakery but not a tailor or a chocolatier? I can't help but be concerned about this growing trend of governments slowly pushing off the burden of ge…

Actually, when you think of it, maybe it's better to legalize stealing than establishing a government agency in charge of equitable redistribution. I would imagine stealing would work more efficiently and more fairly. (You see a problem and you say: Hey, let's establish a government agency to solve that problem. Now you have two problems.)

Am I missing some sarcasm here?

Legalising stealing is basically abolishing property rights.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#150

Post by googletazer » Tue, May 03, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

scurvy wrote: post #93

Europeans (DHH for example) constantly brag about what great social safety nets the European countries provide for their people, and that US style charities are a waste. Implying charity money should be given to the government as tax money and let the state do their work instead. Italy has just admitted that it can't take care of its citizens' basic needs. I'm not saying it's time to eat crow, but I am saying it's ti…

Mr Ostriakov, a homeless man of Ukrainian background.

Somewhat doubtful that Mr Ostriakov is Italian, or from an EU member country. Very likely that Mr. Ostriakov had to illegally go to Italy to find work after Biden & co decided it was time to "liberate" Ukraine. Just a theory.