Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 268 posts

Re: TTIP Leaks

#141

Post by kspaans »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #139
kspaans wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. The conversations happen in secret. Not commenting on any other aspects of TTIP, but they happen in secret for a reason.[0][1][2] Most trade negotiations are secret too, and if the whole process was public there would be too much bikeshedding and pressure on the negotiators. EDIT: forgot to include a TL;DR summary of why they are secret. Fixed NPR link 0 - http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/06/26/417851577/e…

The first link doesn't even discuss secrecy, unless the implicit reason is, "because negotiator's lie".

Thanks, that was indeed the wrong NPR story. Fixed!

Re: TTIP Leaks

#142

Post by Retric »

Grishnakh wrote: post #131
switch007 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every internal combustion engine in history has and will spew poison in to the air. You just thought it was slightly less than it actually was.

It wasn't "slightly less", it was many, many times less. And there was no reason for it; it was entirely possible to engineer the vehicles to use the proper amount of AdBlue to keep the emissions within spec, they just wouldn't have been able to go 10,000 miles between refills.

Sure they could, they just needed a larger tank.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#143

Post by Grishnakh »

cookiecaper wrote: post #100
witty_username wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> May be there's less violence, but the amount of suffering has skyrocketed over the years. A more than significant amount of people are dependent on tranquilizers and anti-depressants to make their life bearable, because for them it has become mundane and meaningless without. Citation? I haven't heard of anyone who is dependent on tranquilizers or anti-depressants (well, apart from the Internet from people with clin…

It's very common in the US. Present to a medical professional with a bit of lethargy and doubt or confusion over the general direction of your life and these medications seem to be prescribed almost immediately. It's almost like they don't want people to analyze their lives and address their issues such that their life is bearable without the aid of pharmaceuticals.

Or maybe they'd prefer to make this option readily available to you so that you'll use these pharmaceuticals which have relatively minor side-effects, rather than you "self medicating" with alcohol or illegal narcotics as people generally did in the past (and still do today).

You tell me, which is better for someone under a lot of stress in life: should they take a Xanax one or two times a day, or should they drink themselves into a stupor every evening? Because the latter is the standard way of treating anxiety and depression, and has been for centuries.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#144

Post by soperj »

ekianjo wrote: post #122
switch007 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every internal combustion engine in history has and will spew poison in to the air. You just thought it was slightly less than it actually was.

Ever considered that internal combustion engines actually also saved lives (and made life possible in places where it was not) ? Let's not paint the world black and white.

Honestly, where has it made life possible where it was not? Most places have been inhabited for eons, or settled before the invention of the internal combustion engine.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#145

Post by Grishnakh »

Retric wrote: post #142
Grishnakh wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't "slightly less", it was many, many times less. And there was no reason for it; it was entirely possible to engineer the vehicles to use the proper amount of AdBlue to keep the emissions within spec, they just wouldn't have been able to go 10,000 miles between refills.

Sure they could, they just needed a larger tank.

Well yes, but the question is just how large. In a small car, there probably simply wasn't enough room without completely changing the chassis design. But really, WhyTF do you need a 10k mile service interval? No one expects to drive 10k miles without refilling the fuel tank. No one even expects to drive 10k miles without refilling the windshield washer fluid tank! Car companies don't expect people to drive 10k miles and then take their car to the dealership to put more windshield washer fluid in for them; any moron can refill that tank with a $1.50/gallon bottle from Walmart. But somehow people aren't competent to refill their AdBlue tank and need ridiculously-long service intervals? But they can be trusted to refill their fuel tanks with a highly-flammable and toxic substance (one with poisonous fumes, no less) every week or two?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#146

Post by ASalazarMX »

astazangasta wrote: post #134
kspaans wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. The conversations happen in secret. Not commenting on any other aspects of TTIP, but they happen in secret for a reason.[0][1][2] Most trade negotiations are secret too, and if the whole process was public there would be too much bikeshedding and pressure on the negotiators. EDIT: forgot to include a TL;DR summary of why they are secret. Fixed NPR link 0 - http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/06/26/417851577/e…

I fucking hate these arguments, that "we need secrecy to negotiate effectively". The problem is, the negotiations are "effective" on behalf of corporations, not the public. Yes, they happen in secret for a reason, but that's not a reason we're bound to respect.

If only "in secret" really meant "only between diplomats" and not "hidden from the public but not corporations".

Re: TTIP Leaks

#147

Post by Grishnakh »

tommyman wrote: post #28
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

WTF are you talking about? Can you point to any modern political leaders who are not narcissists? And if you can find any who are genuinely not narcissistic, they're surely sociopathic.

It's nearly impossible to get anywhere in politics without one or both of these qualities. And people like you happily elect them. ("People like you" being a voter in a democratic republic. If you vote, you're most likely guilty of helping to elect narcissistic and/or sociopathic people to power. There's probably almost no one on this message forum who isn't guilty of this.)

Re: TTIP Leaks

#148

Post by harperlee »

ekianjo wrote: post #122
switch007 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every internal combustion engine in history has and will spew poison in to the air. You just thought it was slightly less than it actually was.

Ever considered that internal combustion engines actually also saved lives (and made life possible in places where it was not) ? Let's not paint the world black and white.

(replying to soperj's sibling post)

> Honestly, where has it made life possible where it was not?

Antarctica!

But yeah, I think the parent was just making a point :P

Re: TTIP Leaks

#149

Post by wfo »

jcfrei wrote: post #68
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

What is with all the tinfoil hat conspiracies in here? Can we please resume to a rational discussion?

If you call people stating facts and accurately describing the trade deal "tinfoil hat conspiracies" then you are arguing in bad faith and should stop. Even if you believe such a ridiculous thing the cheap insults and incendiary language doesn't help your cause.

You need to understand these deals as they are -- negotiated primarily by large corporate representatives, used as a back door to slam through legislation that would never pass domestic muster in its respective countries as a single up-or-down omnibus deal that legislators cannot reject. No conspiracy at all, rather, business as usual.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#150

Post by wfo »

untog wrote: post #83
mvanvoorden wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're repeating propaganda. May be there's less violence, but the amount of suffering has skyrocketed over the years. A more than significant amount of people are dependent on tranquilizers and anti-depressants to make their life bearable, because for them it has become mundane and meaningless without. Statistiscs may tell a story of less violence, and people getting older and having more material possessions, but t…

What you're saying is "statistics might tell one story, but let me tell you, without citing sources or evidence, those statistics are wrong".

No, what he's saying is "your metrics are measuring the wrong things and so it does not matter what numbers pop out of them; they are completely meaningless when it comes to answering the question which is actually important".
Post reply on HN