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Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

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Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's helpful I think I have aphantasia and am also an INTJ engineer.

Yeah, i think there is a correlation somehow. Thanks

INTJ here too, but I can vividly recall memories and imagine things in my full spectrum of senses. My memory is pretty good too.

Although visual imagination is slightly weaker / less tangible in my mind than the rest - as if recall of audio was at whisper strength and easily drowned out in stronger IRL stimulus, but I don't forget the things I imagined, I just have to focus and re-imagine them when they fade.

Thinking about it now, it might be that my visual short term memory is the limiting factor. Incrementally building visual scenes isn't hard to me, but I have to "paint it out".

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#142

Wait, so people can actually see things in their head? Like the author, I was convinced this was a metaphor/figure of speech... Actually, I'm still a bit skeptical about whether any of this is true. I have a sense of how things are located spatially and can recall features of things I have verbally described to myself, but there is no way I can see anything that's not before my eyes. Not sure if that's related, but I…

Skepticism is healthy, but there is an overwhelming body of evidence that visual imagination is real. Even if you don't take people's testimony as proof, MRI scans demonstrate that areas of the brain associated with visual processing engage when people imagine visually. Disbelieving all of this simply because it doesn't match with your own personal experience of mind is bordering on arrogance.

I do think visual imagination varies greatly, even amongst those who have it. Mine is not particularly strong — everything I imagine is very "shadowy" and ill-defined, but nonetheless it is there. It is hard to describe such an intangible phenomenon, but imagining/remembering visually feels qualitatively different from imagining/remembering facts, sounds, words, etc.

For example, I can imagine the painting The Starry Night by Vincent van Gogh, and when I do, I "see" the painting in my mind. This imagined image is far from clear or sharp, more like a fuzzy ghost of the original. Also, the imagined image is separate from the sensory input I'm receiving from my eyes. I don't see the van Gogh painting plastered over whatever I'm looking at. Instead, it's as if the two images coexist in my conscious awareness, although it takes a deliberate effort to maintain the imagined one, and the image from my eyes is much stronger and clearer. Closing my eyes can help me focus more easily on the imagined image.

My dreams are similarly lo-fi, visually speaking. The best way I can describe is that everything in my dreams is very poorly lit. It's like being in a darkened room, where you can see objects, but can't make out their details. This tends to frustrate me, and I often spend a lot of my time in dreams trying to address the problem by reaching some more brightly lit environment, and then getting confused as to why I still cannot see properly.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a strange phenomenon that occurs in some pregnancies where extra bloodflow/pressure on a particular region of the brain causes women to over-identify faces (in electrical sockets, in crumpled laundry, etc.). other visual skills are unaffected.

Interesting. Do you have a link to more information?

I don't know about pregnancies, but pareidolia and apophenia are terms in psychology for false positive pattern recognition.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#144
Surprised no one's linked this yet: SSC's "what universal human experiences are you missing out on without realizing it", which describes this phenomenon in particular:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/17/what-universal-human-ex...

Basically, there are a lot of cases where people assume something is part of everyone's internal experience but which can be refuted with detailed, literal comparisons of your first person accounts.

For me, it was alcohol. I have never actually liked it, in the sense of "enjoying the sensation of drinking it". The best drinks to me are merely "bearable". I always assumed everyone was pretending as some excuse to get drunk.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#145
Weird. This explains a lot of my abilities much better than hightened IQ or something like that. The test, which basically asks you multiple versions of "how clear can you picture X", told me I'm in the top 20% of people with Hyperphantasia, although I might misjudge my experience greatly.

Being able to quickly and accurately create mental models is essential to most of my workflows.

Now I really regret not having learned drawing.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#146

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

The one that surprised me the most was the inability to replay music in your head. Probably because I do that a lot.

Here's a series of things you could try.

- Sing "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" out loud.

- Do it again silently -- don't vocalize -- but keep moving your mouth, lips and tongue. If you're like me, you'll also still feel your throat and vocal chords moving.

- Do it again silently, without moving your lips, but still move your tongue and vocal chords.

- Do it again silently, but keep your tongue still, just move your vocal chords silently.

- Do it again, entirely silently, in your head.

I'd be interested to learn which steps are hard for you. When I'm singing a song "in my head" I'm actually doing any one of the latter three actions.

Relatedly, when I'm talking to myself in my head -- which I do often, usually while reliving an old conversation or anticipating a new one -- I often do the throat and tongue motions. Occasionally I even do the mouth motions, which is a good way to get people to look at you strangely :)

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#148
I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery.

I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible.

And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see sheep?

Notwithstanding my apparently poorly functioning mind's eye, I've never had any problem with spatial reasoning, and have scored +2sd in tests with a spatial ability component. I find myself able to "feel" the forms in a way that seems to have nothing to do with vision.

Does anybody else recognize this experience?

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#149

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

Not really questions, but two facts I think you should know:

I read your inability to use Morgan Freeman's voice in Morgan Freeman's voice.

When you mentioned you were unable to hear the Star Wars theme my first reaction was how badly it clashed with the song in my mind's ear already.

I have a much stronger mind's ear than average. The loss of my mind's eye I would not notice much; sure it would make fiction less fun and dreams less vivid, but eh. But losing my mind's ear would be like going deaf. I have what amounts to a built-in iPod that can call up any sound I've ever heard, and many more sounds that I haven't. Going without a mind's eye would be a curiosity to me, but losing the ear would be like losing an arm.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#150
post #147

The test seems nearly useless. What's the difference between "moderately clear" and "reasonably clear"? Seems like a test subject would need to be prepared quite thoroughly with image and video examples to define the available options.

Absolutely, sadly. But it nudged me into trying to find a real test, so in that sense it served its purpose fully.
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