Xterm(1) now UTF-8 by default on OpenBSD • Hacker News Board

Re: Xterm(1) now UTF-8 by default on OpenBSD

#141

Post by JdeBP » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 12:45 AM UTC

lokedhs wrote: post #22

scrupulusalbion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago, I had the idea to remake the old Space Cadet keyboard. One change was to make the bucky bits (e.g. control, alt, meta, super, etc.) allow you to type unicode characters instead of APL characters. Other than that and having lower case parentheses (not needing to use shift to type ( or ) ), the keyboard would be like any other mechanical keyboard.

Did you follow through on it? I have wanted a modern space cadet keyboard for a long time, but the current trend in keyboards seems to be to have less keys, not more (a trend that just doesn't make much sense to me).

That's slightly ambiguous. Is your definition of a "modern space cadet" keyboard that it has more modifier types? Or that it has more keys? (Bear in mind that one could go back to a 101-key U.S. PC/AT keyboard and still have more keys than the 100-key space cadet keyboard.)

For keyboards with more keys (and yet no vendor-defined private HID usages), one can look at the keyboards available in Brazil. Some of the "multimidia" keyboards from the likes of Multilaser, C3 Tech, and Leadership have the 107-key Windows ABNT2 physical layout, with anywhere up to 20 further multimedia keys.

But these keyboards don't have keys engraved with more modifier types beyond the usual five.

Re: Xterm(1) now UTF-8 by default on OpenBSD

#142

Post by lokedhs » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 3:51 AM UTC

JdeBP wrote: post #141

lokedhs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you follow through on it? I have wanted a modern space cadet keyboard for a long time, but the current trend in keyboards seems to be to have less keys, not more (a trend that just doesn't make much sense to me).

That's slightly ambiguous. Is your definition of a "modern space cadet" keyboard that it has more modifier types? Or that it has more keys? (Bear in mind that one could go back to a 101-key U.S. PC/AT keyboard and still have more keys than the 100-key space cadet keyboard.) For keyboards with more keys (and yet no vendor-defined private HID usages), one can look at the keyboards available in Brazil. Some of the "mult…

I am referring to a keyboard with a multitude of extra keys. The layout doesn't have to be exactly like the original space cadet keyboard of course, but having some 50 extra keys surrounding the normal qwerty portion, as well as some 10 modifier keys is basically what I'm looking for.

Re: Xterm(1) now UTF-8 by default on OpenBSD

#143

Post by scrupulusalbion » Mon, Mar 21, 2016, 6:43 PM UTC

lokedhs wrote: post #22

scrupulusalbion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago, I had the idea to remake the old Space Cadet keyboard. One change was to make the bucky bits (e.g. control, alt, meta, super, etc.) allow you to type unicode characters instead of APL characters. Other than that and having lower case parentheses (not needing to use shift to type ( or ) ), the keyboard would be like any other mechanical keyboard.

Did you follow through on it? I have wanted a modern space cadet keyboard for a long time, but the current trend in keyboards seems to be to have less keys, not more (a trend that just doesn't make much sense to me).

I think I came up with the idea about 6 months ago. It is on the back burner until I can find a way to mount the switches (Cherry MX Blues (had enough of those lying around)) [0] without resorting to a PCB. Any ideas on that front are welcome.

Regarding the number of buttons, the Space Cadet had 100 buttons and no number-pad [1], whereas most modern keyboards have 104 buttons. I suppose I could add a number-pad to my design (117 buttons), but then I could also use that area for extra user-definable buttons (20 buttons in a 4x5 grid -> 120 buttons). The Space Cadet is a bit larger than most IBM-style keyboards, so more keys means more real-estate; this is not to mention yet further divergence in design from the original Space Cadet keyboard.

Beyond hardware issues, there are software issues to resolve, like whether to include the macro functionality of the original. I can't find any documentation on how it worked, so I get to start from fresh.

[0] = I really wanted to use some hall-effect switches, but nobody makes them anymore, because they are allegedly the most luxurious switches ever. I would probably have to tear apart an original Space Cadet keyboard to get some. Thus, I would probably just use Cherry MX switches [1] = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Sp...

Re: Xterm(1) now UTF-8 by default on OpenBSD

#144

Post by scrupulusalbion » Mon, Mar 21, 2016, 6:54 PM UTC

setra wrote: post #27

scrupulusalbion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago, I had the idea to remake the old Space Cadet keyboard. One change was to make the bucky bits (e.g. control, alt, meta, super, etc.) allow you to type unicode characters instead of APL characters. Other than that and having lower case parentheses (not needing to use shift to type ( or ) ), the keyboard would be like any other mechanical keyboard.

As someone who programs in modern APL (no joke check out dyalog) I think this is terrible. Besides the APL characters are just the greek characters, and all sorts of things use those.

The original keyboard design was meant to be used to type the characters present in the APL code page [0]. My intention was that one would still be able to type the same (or perhaps mostly the same) characters as the original keyboard but using Unicode instead the APL encoding (which is based on EBCDIC, yuck).

My design may or may not contain the same keys, because I am not sure how many would want the original APL character set. APL keyboards are available, so the market exists [1], but that doesn't mean much. I plan to have the micro-controller user-configurable and replaceable, so one could change what symbols were type-able with the same keyboard. As I expect to use UTF-8, this keyboard could be used to type any character in the UTF-8 code pages.

[0] = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(codepage) [1] = https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69386.0...