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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#141
post #93

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Geographic limitations are a big deal. I'm in the same sort of position as the IBM'ers, in that my company is slowly farming out what used to be internal apps to SaaS companies and moving the remaining jobs to a contractor in India. My family is local, and as I get older that's more and more important. If I have to leave town it's going to have a big impact on my happiness. So much so, in fact, that I may take a huge…

> I may take a huge pay cut and work at, I dunno, Starbucks or something so I can stay local.

This was a quick read, pretty illuminating to see how well the "family" at Starbucks treated a downsized mid-level exec and helped him.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Starbucks-Saved-Life-Privilege/dp/...

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#142

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Say you're a support person working at IBM in Dubuque, Iowa, where local and state taxpayers spent $50M to lure IBM in a delusion of becoming a tech hub. [1] You specialize in Lotus Notes support for local businesses like Hormel. Last year, IBM laid off 2/3 of their Dubuque workforce, 700 people, in a city of 60,000. More than 1% of the population. Your only skill is Notes, same as dozens of other people that were la…

Decentralized economy is good on a macro level but bad for people who live outside the biggest most diversified cities.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#143
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those employees would sue the board for some of its decisions. How does that even work? I understand if there is discrimination, or they didn't get paid for their work but sue them for betting on services for such a long time? Yeah, I don't see how that works. Moreover, didn't most of those employees make the same bet by getting hired to provide consulting services. Besides, employees are not the owners of the comp…

When you're at will, it doesn't. When you are covered by a collective bargaining agreement and contract, it happens all of the time. In my city, when the administration introduced unsafe conditions and unpopular schedule changes the firefighters union picketed the home of the mayor and fire chief, and successfully sued. A friend worked for a manufacturing company where the Union sued over chronic and egregious misman…

Wonder why more software jobs are not unionized? Hollywood and move industry has some of that. Teacher, pilots, firefighters do it.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#144
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not that far from how it works except for the last part. Many executive have a low base pay but a very high bonus component especially CEO's it's usually not 50 to 1 (unless they take a "symbolic" salary when it ends up being usually millions to one) but it's quite high. Now granted it's not if you fail at your task you owe a company money but you don't get it, the owe a company money could happen it's usually…

These loans are later often forgiven.

They are always forgiven after a certain time period thats what they are used for to lock the CEO into the company for X amount of years.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#145
post #106
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't pick you up. You have to leave. However the company has to pay for your expenses. But the USCIS generally approves petitions to change from one employer to the next if the gap between jobs is short. 30 days is acceptable

Does the new employer have to get a new H1-B from the lottery?

No, the new employer can sponsor the new employee.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#146
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive pay doesn’t seem to follow the high-risk-high-reward scenario; they keep the “high reward” but see apparently none of the “high risk”. A much more balanced system would be something like, for each executive: - Your base pay is $51 million. - If you FAIL at your task, YOU OWE THE COMPANY $50 million. - If you succeed, you receive an extra $20 million. If you choose to split $15 million of this reward with em…

- If you FAIL at your task, YOU OWE THE COMPANY $50 million. No sane person would take a CEO job with that type of compensation clause. While the CEO bears responsibility, the world doesn't make it easy. 1. Today's stock market doesn't reward long-term disruptive thinking that isn't guaranteed to be a sure bet. Heck, and there are no sure bets anyway. The stock market rewards profits here and now that also extrapolat…

> No sane person would take a CEO job with that type of compensation clause. While the CEO bears responsibility, the world doesn't make it easy.

Wait, what? $51M salary, if I fail I give back $50M? I pocket at least $1M risk-free. Sign me up. That's more than most people make total throughout their entire lives.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#147
post #106
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't pick you up. You have to leave. However the company has to pay for your expenses. But the USCIS generally approves petitions to change from one employer to the next if the gap between jobs is short. 30 days is acceptable

Does the new employer have to get a new H1-B from the lottery?

No, the H1B goes with the employee. They/you have to apply for a H1B transfer.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

This is why I think learning new marketable skills should be everyone's hobby. Also, in our field or any professional field, you really should be very financially secure after 50 so that a job loss doesn't hurt you.

The problem is learning new skills is kind of a catch-22. After you've been doing something for a few years, assuming you're reasonably intelligent, you get to be an expert and command expert wages. Your employer is paying for an expert. He doesn't want to pay you expert wages to learn a a new, marketable skill. He can hire someone who already knows it. Or he can hire a new college grad for a fraction of what you make.

So you learn on your own time. But since you're doing tutorials and what not, and your time isn't infinite, when you actually apply for a job with this new skill your potential employer is going to wonder why he should pay you expert wages for a skill with which you still have effectively no professional experience.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#149

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Some of these locations don't have any other companies in the area. Example: You're 22, straight out of college, you take a job at IBM in Poughkeepsie, NY because it was a great fit for you and you liked the area. You raise a family there, get friends there, establish a lot of roots over 10+ years. Now IBM is "transforming", what are you going to do? There are no other companies in the area

You can commute to NYC. It's a 1 hour ride on the Metro-North. It's not ideal but when times are hard you survive by any means necessary. It's also quite enjoyable. I get so much reading and personal time commuting on the train.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#150
post #11

That is a good sign. It means the ship is slowly turning around. It sucks for the employees being laid off, no doubt. However they have to do this. There is no other way. They bet big on support and services in early 2000s. So they have lots of those employees. Could they all start to learn new things adapt to the new environment, yeah, some will but not everyone will. Heck, if they didn't lay off people, they'd stil…

Do you have any information about the company's position and needs? About what options they have? About the ranges of outcomes of the various options? About the decision making process and politics that lead to this option? Otherwise, it's just a very speculative assumption, repeated by many, that firing people must be good. Management must be acting in the company's best interests - they couldn't be biased or selfis…

> Why did working people understand this truth in 1915 but not today?

My cynical view (as another 'born into a union family' etc etc) is that, back then, enraged human souls could take out their anger on the material interests and personal safety of capital owners. A factory would burn, stock would get ruined, people would get physically threatened. That empowered workers and did a lot in making owners understand that humans are not tools that you can just put down when not needed.

Nowadays what you gonna do, burn a few laptops? Smash a few desks? Big deal. The owner or CEO responsible for directives is probably in another continent, essential business interests are in datacentres across the world. Unless you are an uber-skilled security professional, you simply have no significant recourse. You could lynch the redundancy managers sent to deal with you (as they are starting to do in France), but the owners will just hire a few more.

What this means is that, behind all our philosophy about Sharing Economies, Clouds and so on, the new model of work is really the Mechanical Turk: machine-mediated work distribution across an atomized workforce. Until we stop loving the machine, we will not stop this trend.

This is generationally very hard, because we have grown with these machines and we've seen them shape our world and our professions - how can we not like them? There is still so much to do, so many opportunities... We are going through an industrial revolution the likes of which had not been seen since the early 1800s, and we know those were not easy years for the common folk. It will take a few more generations to stabilize and get to grip with new social realities; it will take people who were born after machines stopped being novel, people who can consciously refuse and refute the model pushed upon them by networks, computers and centralized capital. It will probably not be millennials, but maybe their kids will be desperate enough to start considering real changes.

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