Except the NBBO was often stale (on purpose), so you were getting what was wrongly quoted as the NBBO by selling to an HFT who knew that the actual BBO was better, allowing them to arb on that knowledge. That said, a substantial portion of your posting history consists of you being dishonest about the value extracted by HFT (value that is actually created by others), so I'm not surprised that you are lying about the…
Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
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Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#142So essentially the exchanges offer multiple data feeds. These feeds are differentiated by a couple of points. 1) How much market data they give out. Typically this is broken into 3 levels: - Level 1, Just the top of book quote, this is the best bid and offer and their corresponding number of shares at this price level. - Level 2 Depth of market at each price level, same as above but you can see all liquidity offered.…
> As you can imagine the difference is speed. The slower methods will use the text based FIX protocol and the fastest methods give you a feed and an FPGA to parse the feed with. Err, No. You can parse FIX with an FPGA if you feel like it. It is up to you how you consume the data. The differential will be CoLocation vs dedicated line vs internet delivery on a base level and then differing subsets of feeds to varying l…
That's true but no one said you couldn't. What I said was that FIX based feeds would be slower than binary ones. I stand behind this.
I also said that some binary feeds come with an FPGA card for parsing them, you are of course free to use your own FPGA to parse a fix feed or binary feed, but the binary feed will be faster due to it being smaller.
>The differential will be CoLocation vs dedicated line vs internet delivery on a base level and then differing subsets of feeds to varying liquidity pools.
This is wrong, but its not your fault, its clear you aren't in the industry or really understand it at all and that's ok.
Colocation is part of what you pay for, but the latency and bandwidth of the feed itself also is part of what you pay for. You'll also pay for the type of data you receive and the SLA contract that dictates how fast you'll receive your data at the 99.99% level.
Feel free to mail me if you'd like to learn more!
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, HFT firms aren't especially lucrative compared to other finance specialties, so one answer to that question is "nowhere". Second, HFT firms compete with other finance firms , so what money they do make comes from bidding down the costs those firms were imposing on the rest of the market. If you're a retail trader, automated electronic traders make money off you by outbidding the markets to quote good prices to…
> First, HFT firms aren't especially lucrative compared to other finance specialties, so one answer to that question is "nowhere". Total bullshit. If there was so little money to be made why is every exchange catering to high frequency traders? Why was the building across from the NYSE hollowed out to become a data center? Why are custom fiber optic cables being layed down specifically for it? > If you're a retail tr…
Please step me through this scenario. Exactly what do you think is happening, in what order and how?
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because speed is an implicit and intrinsic "figure of merit" in automated market making: if you are faster than other market makers, you outcompete them. There are two straightforward problems with microsecond-speed electronic trading: * At very small timescales, possibly as a sort of inevitable consequence of the CAP theorem, correlations between instruments that should trade in lock step start to break down. Since…
Exotic quote types and being paid for making the cross is where this explanation seems to hit market realities. HFTs are able to make money on fees by having special access not only in terms of latency but in terms of ordering.
What exactly is an "Exotic quote type"?
Do you mean order type because there is a huge difference. If you don't understand the difference it makes it hard to take your assertion seriously.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Instead of the game being "who communicates fastest" it would be "who can time the sample rate the best"
There are plenty of solutions to that but it wouldn't even be a problem if exchanges weren't -selling their order flow before the trades happen-
Are you perhaps confusing exchange in this case with a broker?
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#146My question is about the business side of Nanex. Are sales of your products such as NxCore enough to sustain the company? Do you also actively trade? And what opportunities do you see currently around data science and machine learning for entrepreneurs in the quantitative finance world?
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you saying that there is a special market operating in the NYSE that some traders cannot access? Why would my order not be eligible for being matched, but a HFT's would? Edit: wow, rate limited after three posts this morning. A new HN low. My response to tptacek below: My dumb order? How can HFT's intercept and redirect my trades to their, appently, captive pool of dumb trades? Sure sounds like multiple markets a…
Read Dark Pools ( http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OFHLG6/ ) and it will make the setup at least comprehensible.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somethings off. If all this is is market making, why all the trouble with the microsecond latencies? Microwave links? Shared colos? That seems like a lot of cost everyone could save on by simply having the exchange enforce some minimum timings.
Because speed is an implicit and intrinsic "figure of merit" in automated market making: if you are faster than other market makers, you outcompete them. There are two straightforward problems with microsecond-speed electronic trading: * At very small timescales, possibly as a sort of inevitable consequence of the CAP theorem, correlations between instruments that should trade in lock step start to break down. Since…
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#149Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read Dark Pools ( http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OFHLG6/ ) and it will make the setup at least comprehensible.
I think I get the setup and that my characterization is rather accurate.
1) A dark pool. This is just another name for an exchange, but one that is not public. I don't know if NYSE runs one, but it wouldn't be surprising. The theory behind these is that they are provided as a service to large institutional investors to trade with each others outside the vagaries of the public markets for lots of reasons (mostly advertised as a way to not impact prices). The reality of these has been mixed at best. You have to opt into using a dark pool.
2) Payment for order flow. In this case your broker (not the exchange) has an agreement with a third party to sell your trades to them so that they can either trade with you directly or route the trade to an exchange. The reason they want to do this is that the aggregate of all the trades they are buying is not price opinionated (as opposed to hedge funds say) so the market maker can make the aggregate difference between all of them. This mechanism is largely how all discount brokers offer cheap or free trading, so it is likely a huge boon to you. A couple of things to note about this, your broker has to disclose it to you, I believe you are still required to get the NBBO price, & I believe you are required to be able to opt out by directing your order to be directly routed.
[edit] To clarify your question `jsprogrammer `tptacek is referencing #2 above. The reason the technical oddities & violations at NYSE don't have a huge impact on a retail investor is that unless otherwise stated, they are interacting with a wholesale market maker before their order hits any exchange, in a deal worked out with your broker and governed by legal obligations on both their parts.