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Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

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Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#141

Post by sjs »

chronomex wrote: post #80
Retric wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Google is going to sell at below cost, the limitation on large network's bandwidth is primarily routing technology which has continued to improve while US broadband has stagnated. It's not like other countries have not been rolling out low cost 1Gbit consumer connections for a while. PS: Despite all these talk of caps etc, upstream bandwidth is still a small chunk of a large ISP's budget.

Anecdotally: A friend of mine who lives in Sweden gets 100 megabits for about the equivalent of $25 per month. It's not a gigabit, but it's a lot closer to a gigabit than five megabits is.

There are some faster connections available in the US too. In and around the north east iirc.

Here on the west side of Canada, Shaw offers 100mbps connections for $150/mo. That's obviously a complete rip-off but it's nice to have the option to get gouged. They price the 25mbps connections at $100/mo presumably to make it seem economical to get 100mbps.

http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/Internet/Nitro/

Telus has 25mbps as well now. Fttn and capable of serving 100mbps according to a Telus technician I spoke with, so I'm sure they'll up the speeds at some point.

Nice to see competition that isn't just offering us "gifts" ... for signing 3 year contracts.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#142

Post by jodrellblank »

marltod wrote: post #66
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

Like what Gmail did to all the e-mail provider/administrators who said anything over a 100MB Inbox was too expensive.

Expense isn't a problem when you have a multibillion dollar company who wrote their own filesystem to use custom designed free software on custom designed low power servers redundantly spanning over cheap disks in energy efficient custom datacenters and no uptime guarantees.

For most companies a new Exchange cluster backed by RAID SCSI disks and a backup system upgrade isn't a trivial cost.

Edit: yes, Google did it cheaper, but that's not because IT people were lying, misleading or dismissing - it really is expensive to do 'properly'.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#143

Post by deltaqueue »

There seem to be a large number of comments on the possible effects, motives, and general thoughts about Google's effort, but I'm intrigued with what it's going to take to get them to consider a particular community or city. Will they be partial to urban or rural neighborhoods? Densely- or openly-developed communities? Newer or older cities? Will demographics play a role?

I'm sure they're going to be considering all of these, but short of keeping my fingers crossed and filling out an application I hope some part of Austin, TX gets on the map.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#144

Post by garethm »

sp332 wrote: post #138
Groxx wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what's the excuse for Japan being so much higher? They've had a lot of wireless access for quite a while, and web browsing on their phones for much longer. If that's taken into account, they should be significantly lower.

It's not an issue of wireless penetration, it's about maturity. Obviously the first rollout in the USA is going to be slower than a mature infrastructure like Japan's.

Surely when you roll out new wireless, you should roll out the fastest stable technology? Wouldn't Japan be held back to some extent by wireless infrastructure that hasn't yet been upgraded?

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#145

Post by olefoo »

enneff wrote: post #73
ippisl wrote: post #68

I don't understand why the go for the 1gbit fiber to the home. it would be more helpfull to their business if everybody in the u.s would have 2 or 5 or 10mbit/sec in a short time , then if everybody has 1gbit/sec in a much longer time. Also , does anybody know mass market applications that require more then 10mbit up/10mbit down?

Mass market applications that utilise 1gbit connections do not exist because the mass market does not have 1gbit connections.

1 gigabit with relatively low latency would be enough for live jam sessions for serious musicians. I've seen a couple of tele-concerts where the bandwidth between venues was especially set up and I can see some potential there.

Also, multiviewpoint live video feeds, full-size catalog photos for e-commerce (full 12-megapixel photos of the actual product so you can zoom in close enough to see the stitches.).

All this and more.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#146

Post by nradov »

natrius wrote: post #63
ericd wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing, I think internet access is essential to being an educated citizen nowadays, and many websites are no longer viable for dialup users to visit. High speed internet for all should be placed on the same level of importance as education for all.

Satellite internet speeds are acceptable for web browsing and is available everywhere. I'd consider subsiding the costs of such connections for those who can't afford it. My understanding is that things like Universal Service Fees subsidize even those who can afford it.

Have you actually tried satellite service? Latency is worse than dial-up. We tried for a while to get some of our customers using satellite but that turned out to be a failure due to the miserable performance.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#148

Post by ippisl »

protomyth wrote: post #62
jsz0 wrote: post #27

I think Google would be better off partnering with existing service providers for this project. It's a hugely complex process to start from scratch. Getting the pole rights alone to build infrastructure is going to take them years. In some area's within the span of a mile you might pass poles owned by half a dozen different entities. Most of them owned by incumbent Internet service providers who will tell you the pol…

I would think it would be good for Google to partner with the local non-telco / non-cable provider of utilities. The local electric or gas company (who is used to commodity business models) would be a ideal. They already have access to the houses and would make a good "franchise" partner. They probably wouldn't mind another "dumb pipe".

In israel the electric company is working on being an ISP. they use some kind of robot that lays fiber on top of electric cables.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#149

Post by bad_user »

emmett wrote: post #67
bad_user wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Google throws products on the market to increase competition for the benefit of its core products ... it's genius. Are there any other companies that do this?

Yes, tons. See "commoditize your complements". Microsoft is a master of this as well. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html

Yes I know about that strategy ... but Google's means are different.

When they release a freebie (like Chrome or Android), they force their new competitors in that market to follow their lead.

The browser's speed, instability and lack of proper standards implementations hurts them? ... so they release a super optimized browser with a clear design and with tabs running in their own process. Now Firefox, Opera and Safari (at least) will follow.

The mobile-market is too closed and becoming more so? So they release Android, a pseudo-open OS with an online-store that has more relaxed rules. And I'm pretty sure they don't need an Android-monopoly (as Microsoft is trying with everything they release) to achieve their goals.

Their strategy is not (directly) for increased lock-in (as Microsoft does) ... it's more for eliminating distribution channels / middle-men that might get in their way on reaching customers.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#150

Post by synnik »

wmf wrote: post #21
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

Yeah, after Google starts selling broadband significantly below cost, no real ISP will be able to meet customers' inflated expectations.

But at whose cost? Google already owns a significant chunk of their own infrastructure, so their costs are cheaper than most ISPs.

Google could profit at rates that would be "below cost" for other ISPs.

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