Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Unsuitability of English (2015)

chronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 319 posts

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#141

Post by deciplex »

crazygringo wrote: post #136

Yes, English has irregular spelling. And phrasal verbs, the whole "to/-ing" thing[1], and "th" is hard for some people to pronounce. On the other hand, it doesn't have nouns that need to be remembered as masculine or feminine. Or a hundred+ unique regular verb conjugation endings. There are no subjunctive tenses (with one tiny exception). There are no tones. I could go on... Every language has its annoyances. And hon…

Also cf "I like washing the dishes right after dinner" vs "I like to wash the dishes right after dinner."

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#142

Post by sdegutis »

crazygringo wrote: post #136

Yes, English has irregular spelling. And phrasal verbs, the whole "to/-ing" thing[1], and "th" is hard for some people to pronounce. On the other hand, it doesn't have nouns that need to be remembered as masculine or feminine. Or a hundred+ unique regular verb conjugation endings. There are no subjunctive tenses (with one tiny exception). There are no tones. I could go on... Every language has its annoyances. And hon…

English suffers from the same problem as UNIX: they're both good enough.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#143

Post by meric »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #92
meric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a word for it in English starting with a B and is an analogy to an output of an animal, which I'm disinclined to repeat here.

Bullshitters don't tend to proactively preface their statements with caveats on their own credibility, but I take your point. I'm essentially parroting information obtained from others in my own words, likely imperfectly. I'm not spinning yarns on my own personal theories and opinion while presenting them as The Truth.

Sorry, was replying to parent comment with a bit of humour rather than directing at you.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#144

Post by beat »

purpled_haze wrote: post #26
HelloMcFly wrote: post #12

Language is a tool to facilitate information exchange. It doesn't matter how "superior" one language is to another for any given reason, if a language provides limited opportunity to exchange information then it is not valuable. The incentives to learn English exist because the value of exchanging information in English is strong in the present-day sociopolitical context, and the malleability of the language played a…

So true. And since you've gone the intellectual route, I'll choose the emotional one: I propose the Dutch don't like English because their language is also bastardization of different languages. As a defensive mechanism, they're picking on English to distract everyone from their soddy language. :) Sure, the writer's English, but he had to pander to the locals.

A friend of mine grew up in a family scattered across Holland, England, France, and Germany, with a grandmother matriarch in Holland. He was raised mostly in England, so English was his first language. The rule of his grandmother's house was that you could use words from Dutch, English, German, or French, but you had to use Dutch grammar.

It was from him that I learned the formula "Dutch is just German with a fire sale on vowels."

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#145

Post by beat »

sdegutis wrote: post #142
crazygringo wrote: post #136

Yes, English has irregular spelling. And phrasal verbs, the whole "to/-ing" thing[1], and "th" is hard for some people to pronounce. On the other hand, it doesn't have nouns that need to be remembered as masculine or feminine. Or a hundred+ unique regular verb conjugation endings. There are no subjunctive tenses (with one tiny exception). There are no tones. I could go on... Every language has its annoyances. And hon…

English suffers from the same problem as UNIX: they're both good enough .

English and Unix are both strong arguments that "good enough" is the best way to communicate, that being more rigid and formal and, well, consistent, is actually counterproductive.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#146

Post by cmurf »

tosseraccount wrote: post #64
purpled_haze wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. And since you've gone the intellectual route, I'll choose the emotional one: I propose the Dutch don't like English because their language is also bastardization of different languages. As a defensive mechanism, they're picking on English to distract everyone from their soddy language. :) Sure, the writer's English, but he had to pander to the locals.

Most similar language to English, except for Frisian, is Dutch. Here's an admittedly imperfect graph showing this : https://alternativetransport.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/lex... . French, Spanish, Italian , Portugese and Romanians can often understand each other to a limited degree as all are modern mutations from Latin. English speakers might be a little surprised that,if they listen very carefully, can understand…

I speak English, and some German. I find Nederlands to be totally confusing. Maybe my Dutch lightbulb just hasn't turned on yet.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#147

Post by danieltillett »

curun1r wrote: post #80
danieltillett wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but given human nature it unlikely that people will both to go to the effort of learning a second or third language once there is an easier approach.

Which is a shame, since the value of learning a second (or third, fourth, fifth, etc) language isn't limited to being able to converse with the people who speak it. Learning a new language can help you understand the world and yourself to a greater degree than is possible when you're forced to think inside the confines of a single language. It's a trippy feeling the first time you realize that you're unable to transl…

This same concept exists within a language too.

I can only speak for English, but there are many concepts that can only be expressed in "high" English. You can be faced with trying to explain some concept to someone when they don't have the vocabulary to understand. You can simplify what you say to get across a shadow of the idea, but it just does not feel right.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#148

Post by beat »

flatline wrote: post #133
newman314 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I’ll never know. Try saying that in Japanese or Chinese. Not the same effect.

Chinese is more full of double (or more) meanings than any other language I've studied. Chinese literature and poetry are famous for playing on multiple meanings of a single character or sound.

Even in my one year of Chinese, I learned a great appreciation for the ridiculous puns that can be made in Chinese. It's also remarkably concise. I think most computer programmers, if exposed to Chinese, would really admire its clarity and simplicity. It's like the Lisp of natural languages.

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#149

Post by bkantt »

yodsanklai wrote: post #127
teek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spanish speakers love to tout the simplicity of pronunciation but I'd argue conjugation and gender are just as complicated because they add additional memorization and dimension in order to speak correctly. This is the main complexity of romance languages and was an immediate turn off to me.

> I'd argue conjugation and gender are just as complicated because they add additional memorization and dimension in order to speak correctly I don't think conjugation is such a problem. I'm learning Spanish at the moment and learning the various endings is actually quite easy. What I find more difficult are all the irregular verbs. On the other hand, I've been learning English for decades and oral communication is s…

> I don't think conjugation is such a problem. I'm learning Spanish at the moment and learning the various endings is actually quite easy.

Did you get to Subjuntivo or Pretérito vs. Imperfecto yet? Unless you already speak Portuguese or Italian, that's when the verbs get tricky :)

Re: The Unsuitability of English (2015)

#150

Post by wodenokoto »

newman314 wrote: post #119
wodenokoto wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no it isn't and no it doesn't. All natural languages carry a large portion of ambiguity, to the extend that Steven Pinker even count ambiguity as a defining factor of natural language!

One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I’ll never know. Try saying that in Japanese or Chinese. Not the same effect.

What is your point exactly? How does that joke in anyway counter the point that ambiguity is a prominent feature in all languages? do you honestly believe that because this joke doesn't translate, there can't possibly exist jokes based on double entendre or other ambiguities in the target language?
Post reply on HN