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Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

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Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the "low-end" devices Firefox OS were targeting were miles more powerful than what Opera Platform targeted a decade prior, and JS VMs are far quicker than they were a decade prior… I'm not sure it's so obvious that low-end devices doomed it to failure (of course, you actually worked on this stuff unlike me!). I think it's worthwhile to remember at the time Firefox OS launched much of Android ran on the Da…

(Hi Geoffrey, ltns! :) ) The execution of the code, be it javascript on some modern engine or Java/Dalvik bytecode - that isn't typically the performance bottleneck. It is fast enough now. I'm not an expert on this (this is where I thread on thin ice), but my understanding is that the HTML/CSS logdoc/layout tree model is inherently non-performant compared to a more traditional hierarchical windowed object oriented mo…

(Hi. :))

It depends a lot on what you're doing, and how much data you're processing. If we go by the premise that you're processing more data locally than you would in a web app (because you don't need to worry about the latency and you don't have a server to do the pre-processing and filtering of the data before it reaches the client), then actual VM performance is more significant. The last time I looked at any profiles of browsers on Gmail or FB, JIT'd code actually accounts for several of the most expensive functions (and you will notice if you disable the JIT). JS performance does matter—even if DOM performance dominates in the case of the common website (and note that Mozilla has actually been doing quite a lot of interesting work around teaching the JS VM more about the DOM, including rewriting parts in JS, which allows JIT optimisation to happen).

It's definitely true that it's easier to write non-performant code using HTML/CSS (and and WebGL don't really help here—because it's hard to ensure data gets correctly passed to accessibility layers), but I think that the majority of mobile apps are simple enough for it to not be a concern.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a post-rationalization to me. All I heard was that this was how they expected to survive without Google. It was expected to bring a lot of revenue.

Source?

You can read the original announcement with the list of goals here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platf...

there used to be a website - arewemobileyet.com which listed the API's that we identified as necessary to make FxOS possible.

You can find it in web.archive - http://web.archive.org/web/20140401194921/http://arewemobile...

We successfully standardized most of them! :)

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#143
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Persona. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10436123 Re: privacy / security, I really wish they hadn't dropped Thunderbird.

It's a shame really, but as an outsider, it wasn't clear that Persona was even given a chance to fail.

Absolutely right. Dan Callahan's statement on why:

"with Mozilla Labs somewhat sudden dissolution, we were unexpectedly asked to demonstrate traction and commercial adoption that simply wasn't there."

Commercial adoption? What does that even mean in the context of MoCo? What does MoCo sell? And 24 months? Makes no sense, even for MoCo. Google is consistently a small player in the Cloud Computing Platform space. Their response: "we're not going away." MoCo has scores of millions in the bank. I'm still baffled.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an open source smartphone OS, why not just use Android (AOSP)?

Because the apps ecosystem is getting more and more locked into Play Services, which are not part of AOSP.

Fdroid apps work well for me. I did not install gapps at all.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#147

Firefox appeared at a time when there was huge potential being stifled by a stagnant monopoly in the space, and people were desperate for something good. It filled a real need, and people loved it. FirefoxOS appeared at a time when there was huge potential being actively being pushed forward and innovated on by the two largest tech companies in the space, and people already had two great options to choose from. It fi…

Bring back Brendan Eich ?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Hi Geoffrey, ltns! :) ) The execution of the code, be it javascript on some modern engine or Java/Dalvik bytecode - that isn't typically the performance bottleneck. It is fast enough now. I'm not an expert on this (this is where I thread on thin ice), but my understanding is that the HTML/CSS logdoc/layout tree model is inherently non-performant compared to a more traditional hierarchical windowed object oriented mo…

(Hi. :)) It depends a lot on what you're doing, and how much data you're processing. If we go by the premise that you're processing more data locally than you would in a web app (because you don't need to worry about the latency and you don't have a server to do the pre-processing and filtering of the data before it reaches the client), then actual VM performance is more significant. The last time I looked at any pro…

I haven't done profiling of firefox os on a crappy device...

but my suspicion is that it really is as simple as: even really-well-optimized html/css/js that needs to go through a browser core will suffer performance-wise compared to something with 10-15 less layers of indirection. (Like a traditional windowing toolkit.)

The Android UI toolkit isn't exactly efficent (ha!), but still seems to beat Firefox OS on super-low-end hardware judging from the reviews I have seen.

The internal windowing toolkit and java-like mini language with a VM that we made for Opera Mini 5/Opera Mobile 10 with both J2ME and C VM implementations was like 3x faster than the Android UI toolkit with Dalvik for typical windowing tasks. Without any super-fancy optimizations...

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#149
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree that they should turn their focus towards solving privacy and identity management. I'm hoping that this might mean they can direct some resources towards Persona development again. Or at least experiment with something new in this area.

I really agree on this. They should focus on a browser that respects privacy and email that respects privacy (perhaps by resuming Thunderbird development). On top of that, I'd argue IM + video/audio chat that respects privacy is something that desperately needs better solutions. I'd push software forward, and then innovate on protocols. Peer to peer might be the only way to achieve true privacy.

> I really agree on this. They should focus on a browser that respects privacy and email that respects privacy

I'd love to see it happen, but who would the money come from?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#150

Is anyone actually surprised by this announcement? It feels like Mozilla tries a lot of things, but rarely gets traction on any of them. Mean while, Firefox isn't getting that much better and seems to be loosing marketshare. What's the long-term plan?

Shovel more crap like Pocket and Hello into their flagship product and pray that something sticks?

Agreed, it seems like they're rapidly running out of options. It's getting a little concerning.

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