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PHP 7 Released

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Re: PHP 7 Released

#141

Post by oblio »

jacquesm wrote: post #80
oblio wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP is very likely to be the language used by Mort: http://blog.codinghorror.com/mort-elvis-einstein-and-you/ I doubt any of those developers are ever going to switch what they're already using unless they are forced by some external factor. The more serious factor is: if you're on Hackernews, you're at least Elvis or even Einstein. Mort is out of reach for most internet media for programmers.

I think you should actually read the text of the article you linked to. It contradicts the rest of your comment.

I did read it, I know that the conclusion is that reaching out to Mort should be attempted. But most Morts don't work in software companies. And I doubt that reaching them is easy or cheap.

And it's not elitism, it's a fact that many developers are Mort in all situations. Yes, we're all Mort from time to time, but some people are just Mort :)

Re: PHP 7 Released

#142

Post by ihsw »

Killswitch wrote: post #130
sneak wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a lot of sites run it doesn't mean it's not crap. A lot of companies still host stuff on Windows like it's still 2002, as well. PHP has no place in modern development.

You do realize that the number 2 ranked website on the internet runs on PHP. Get over your elitest attitude. PHP is a fine language and has it's warrants of use. Speaking of, 2 days ago marked a year since I last used PHP.

Are you talking about Facebook? They're transitioning over to Hack.

http://hacklang.org/

As far as I understand, most/all new development is done in Hack.

Granted, a lot of Hack features are starting to make their way into PHP (much like how exciting new TypeScript features are making their way into ES6 and above), but focus has been shifted to Hack.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#143

Post by jsjohnst »

reefoctopus wrote: post #131
jsjohnst wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the line between simple and advanced is blurry, especially for an inexperienced developer. Maybe someday we (Royal we of all software engineers who build tools other engineers use) will learn there's a limit to abstraction layers applicability and put hard breaks into the code when that happens. I guess one shouldn't complain, the more tools allow developers to shoot themselves in the foot and not f…

Simple: CRUD operations Advanced: Everything else

Sadly, it's not that cut and dry. Even what seems to be a simple CRUD retrieve operation to an inexperienced developer could be a very costly thing to do due to relationships between entities.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#144

Post by oblio »

taytus wrote: post #98
oblio wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP is very likely to be the language used by Mort: http://blog.codinghorror.com/mort-elvis-einstein-and-you/ I doubt any of those developers are ever going to switch what they're already using unless they are forced by some external factor. The more serious factor is: if you're on Hackernews, you're at least Elvis or even Einstein. Mort is out of reach for most internet media for programmers.

Elitist much?

Not really. We're all relying on things we know to be working.

How often do you check 100% of the APIs you use for every kind of thing you develop (including shell scripts) for deprecation warnings or bad practice warnings?

I, for one, know that I don't. Except for NASA software, I don't think it's feasible.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

porker wrote: post #75
pc86 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Active Record Pattern is somehow controversial. What is controversial about AR?

> What is controversial about AR? How it represents rows as objects. How it makes people think about them. How it conflates modelling the domain with database structure. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=activerecord+vs+datamapper

> How it represents rows as objects.

A row is the DBMS's model of an entity in the domain. An object is an object-oriented programming language's model of an entity in the domain.

Representing domain entities as objects in the PL that are backed by rows in a database relation (view or table), which is what the Active Record pattern does, is reasonable.

> How it conflates modelling the domain with database structure.

Modelling the domain should drive both application and database structure; the Active Record pattern doesn't promote anything bad I can see there.

There are particular choices in database design that are encouraged by the path of least resistance in some Active Record implementations and related tooling that are, perhaps, not so great.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#146

Post by Killswitch »

ihsw wrote: post #142
Killswitch wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the number 2 ranked website on the internet runs on PHP. Get over your elitest attitude. PHP is a fine language and has it's warrants of use. Speaking of, 2 days ago marked a year since I last used PHP.

Are you talking about Facebook? They're transitioning over to Hack. http://hacklang.org/ As far as I understand, most/all new development is done in Hack. Granted, a lot of Hack features are starting to make their way into PHP (much like how exciting new TypeScript features are making their way into ES6 and above), but focus has been shifted to Hack.

Hack is derived from PHP, they've only tuned the engine for their own usecase, and not to mention anyone in the PHP community can use Hack.

Hack is basically the TypeScript of PHP. Regular PHP works fine on Hack, but you can start incorporating Hack things into your PHP.

If you want to go that route, then my site is actually powered by Babel and not JavaScript.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#147

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

egeozcan wrote: post #16

Why do they keep adding global functions like "intdiv"? For example in JS, it being another language with a similar compatibility burden, they are moving most of the global functions (like parseInt) to "namespaces" (like Number.parseInt) while keeping global references there. When I open the docs (for example, the array functions page[1]), I get frightened by the global functions which do not seem to share a naming c…

All the existing math functions are global. If you add a new one, it's only fitting that it is global too. Having one and only one math function namespaced would be inconsistent.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#148

Post by mgkimsal »

acdha wrote: post #133
mgkimsal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP was easily one of the first to get some mainstream traction. I was using it in February '96, perhaps earlier. Classic ASP from MS was released in Dec 96, and didn't start making inroads (from my vantage point) until mid '97. I was stuck in '97 doing some odd front page weirdness (htc files? can't recall now) which were extremely limiting. At night, I'd go home and do PHP, and had an ecommerce system (horrible as…

I definitely remember that era as the age of Perl but I should note that my first database-driven web app was in 1996, using a beta Java servlet runner with DB/2 on OS/2. I'm happy to report that I got better at making technology choices.

I stand partly corrected. I only knew for certain servlet spec 2 was out in 99, and had not known anyone doing Java web serving stuff. I had colleagues doing java, and I worked in a commercial web house with those same colleagues, but none seemed to consider java web stuff (server side) usable (again memory's a bit hazy). I do know by 2000 some jumped in to servlets big time, but not many before that.

I think my first was perl/cgi in Jan 96 - not a full "web app" but I could read and write data via web forms to a database (msql IIRC). Feb 96 I know I was doing some PHP/FI, though still did a lot of Perl for years, mostly because that's what most hosts supported. For my own stuff, it was generally PHP even then when I had a choice.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#149

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

lsaferite wrote: post #94

I was so excited when I saw this post. Then I realized it's another 'too early' post claiming the tag == release. It's not released until it happens on the PHP site. This is just a tag in the repo. Sure, it likely won't change now, but it could.

It's not uncommon for released to be re-tagged, too.
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