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Edward Snowden at IETF 93

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Re: Edward Snowden at IETF 93

#141

Post by dllthomas »

ikeboy wrote: post #140
dllthomas wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not by breaking them then demanding a pardon." You can't change the laws through the political process when disclosure of the laws is illegal. Further, Snowden is not demanding a pardon - we are demanding Snowden be pardoned.

I addressed that elsewhere in the thread. The laws aren't secret, it's the court rulings that are secret. The fact that there's a secret court is known, though. So you could campaign against that court without leaking classified information. Imagine a world in which Snowden resigned, then publically pushed for unclassifying all FISA court rulings, with the obvious implication (or he could even say explicitly) that he…

"I addressed that elsewhere in the thread. The laws aren't secret, it's the court rulings that are secret. The fact that there's a secret court is known, though. So you could campaign against that court without leaking classified information."

The text of the laws was public. But the NSA decided that those laws meant something radically different than what was written down.

Per my understanding, mostly that did not have involvement from the FISA court.

Re: Edward Snowden at IETF 93

#142

Post by ikeboy »

dllthomas wrote: post #141
ikeboy wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I addressed that elsewhere in the thread. The laws aren't secret, it's the court rulings that are secret. The fact that there's a secret court is known, though. So you could campaign against that court without leaking classified information. Imagine a world in which Snowden resigned, then publically pushed for unclassifying all FISA court rulings, with the obvious implication (or he could even say explicitly) that he…

"I addressed that elsewhere in the thread. The laws aren't secret, it's the court rulings that are secret. The fact that there's a secret court is known, though. So you could campaign against that court without leaking classified information." The text of the laws was public. But the NSA decided that those laws meant something radically different than what was written down. Per my understanding, mostly that did not h…

I think most of it did; could you give a specific program that you're thinking of?

In any event, certainly much of what he published was unambiguously legal.

Re: Edward Snowden at IETF 93

#143

Post by pkinsky »

eli wrote: post #106
danenania wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well if they promised then I'm sure there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

The crimes he's charged with are actually not eligible for the death sentence and the Attorney General promised not to seek the death penalty even if future additional charges do make that possible. Not really sure what else you want.

>The crimes he's charged with are actually not eligible for the death sentence and the Attorney General promised not to seek the death penalty even if future additional charges do make that possible. Not really sure what else you want.

I don't think there's any assurance or promise the US government could offer short of a full pardon that would be sufficient. The US, especially in areas of human rights and national security, is not a trustworthy entity.

Re: Edward Snowden at IETF 93

#144

Post by facetube »

ikeboy wrote: post #77
kajecounterhack wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, did you see https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... > If he felt his actions were consistent with civil disobedience, then he should do what those who have taken issue with their own government do: Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest, and -- importantly -- accept the consequences of his actions. He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a j…

There have been plenty of abuses that came to light without the person who exposed them going to jail. There have even been NSA whistleblowers that stayed in the US and didn't get prosecuted (see e.g. William Binney, who has called Snowden a traitor http://www.businessinsider.com/william-binney-and-snowden-tr... ).

Or, alternatively, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake.

Re: Edward Snowden at IETF 93

#145

Post by steamer25 »

jokoon wrote: post #94

If a republican is elected, ed might stay away from the US for a long time.

If the election were held tomorrow between a generic Democrat and a generic Republican, I'd write in Edward Snowden. Right now, I can't imagine either of the parties yielding a better candidate. If enough others did the same, I think the discussion might actually be elevated enough to make a difference--I won't be holding my breath, though.
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