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“Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

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Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#131

Post by jldugger »

littletimmy wrote: post #91
marktangotango wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. This is very interesting, and brings to mind something I've been struggling with recently (I'm USA-ian by…

Hah, you're welcome. This is really interesting because it raises the question: what role does affluence have to play in all of this? In the case of my country, people usually aren't rich enough to save for retirement, nor are starting salaries high enough for young adults to stake out on their own. So parents help their kids right up to the point they can no longer work, and then kids take over to provide for the fa…

> So, does affluence naturally lead to a weakening of strong family ties?

IMO, what you call strong family ties, others might call patriarchy. When women have improved ability to support themselves, they're more inclined to leave abusive relationships. And like Sandberg, they're less willing to accept menial household roles traditionally assigned to them. There's a podcast from Planet Money about how this plays out among textile workers, if I recall correctly.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#132

Post by icebraining »

pessimizer wrote: post #130
icebraining wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that it's appreciated Not around here, it isn't. I tried that three times, giving up after getting a mix of disinterest and hostility. Which frankly confirms my instincts, I only tried because I've learned not to assume that my preferences match the general public's.

> Not around here, it isn't. I tried that three times, giving up after getting a mix of disinterest and hostility. Someone physically and/or verbally attacked you for thanking them? That's the only negative outcome that I can imagine, and what I'm reading when you say "hostility." Lack of interest seems a typical result - are you expecting to be thanked for thanking people? Theoretically, that forms a chain never end…

Let me make myself clear, I always thank people. What I did those days was to be mindful and sincere instead of thanking in auto-pilot.

Someone physically and/or verbally attacked you for thanking them? That's the only negative outcome that I can imagine, and what I'm reading when you say "hostility."

Attack seems too strong, but an hostile tone, yes. More than once.

My goal wasn't to be praised, but I did have a goal of actually causing a positive effect on others; I have no interest in "good deeds" that help no one except the performer to feel proud about himself.

Considering that all signs indicated I was actually bothering people, I stopped, as I think anyone should.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#133

Post by whoopdedo »

logfromblammo wrote: post #106
chatwinra wrote: post #70

As an English speaker, I agree with others above that this article misses a huge point about our language. Yes we use thank you a lot, even for some things people may consider 'trite'. I'm from the UK so I use it a HELL of a lot. But I want to call out 2 points based on this: 1. As mentioned above, just thanking someone can turn their day around, and most times I feel rude if I do not say it (that is my cultural upbr…

I have also heard discussions on the rise of the double thank-you in American English. For a long while, the acknowledgement response to a "thank you" was "you're welcome". But during the last century, it has become more common to respond to a "thank you" with a "thank you". Usually, in a retail setting, this isn't exactly an even exchange. The business says to the customer "thank you [for your business]" and the cus…

> One does not thank an ATM...

Ever use an ATM with voice prompts? It's hard not to talk back to a machine that's talking to you.

It seems to me that the service-oriented "thank you" is more about expressing satisfaction than gratitude. It's a way of communicating that you have no complaints about the service without suggesting that there could have been anything to complain about. When a person doesn't say "thank you" it implies they were unhappy with the transaction and that they may be less likely to want to do business with you again.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#134

Post by gumby »

marktangotango wrote: post #86
littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

>> In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. This is very interesting, and brings to mind something I've been struggling with recently (I'm USA-ian by…

> This is very interesting, and brings to mind something I've been struggling with recently (I'm USA-ian by the way). As a father I want to instill in my children a sense of self reliance, a sense that they can go into the world and make their own way, and be successful, without my help. In my world view, that is the best gift I can give them.

Me too. I have spent more than 1/2 my life in the US, though I have one Indian parent and one parent from a culture where families have, for lack of a better term, "collective success" (as you put it well, "my wealth as their wealth, or my success as their success.")

But I moved out at 16 and feel that my life now, decades later, is the life _I_ made. And my son is perfectly happy knowing that he won't inherit a penny (I find even the concept of "estate planning" grotesque and anti-republican).

None of this should imply I am any sort of Randian libertarian. I was incredibly lucky to be born in a wealthy country not at war, to have been able to go through a excellent school systems, and to have had a stable family and to have spent most of my working life in western democracies. It certainly has bred an orientation to be of benefit to society and to support my own child to be self reliant and also to be, I hope, a net contributor to society as well.

But the atavistic desire to emphasize obligations within a family is to me a sign of a weakness in a society.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#135

Post by sumedh »

ManFromUranus wrote: post #124
littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

What if that system also fosters corruption and nepotism? Need to hire somebody for a job? family first (you owe them remember?), tender a contract (family first) the list goes on. You are a public servant, someone comes to your office to get you to do the job that you were hired to do, but they're not your family, you don't owe them anything... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India Yeah that system is bet…

What if that system also fosters corruption and nepotism?

It actually does. Just look at the well known public companies in India (Reliance, Infosys, Wipro and many others). You will always see the son or some other relative of the chairman/CEO directly gets hired as a VP or a director.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#136

Post by Manishearth »

bpyne wrote: post #111
littletimmy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, you're welcome. This is really interesting because it raises the question: what role does affluence have to play in all of this? In the case of my country, people usually aren't rich enough to save for retirement, nor are starting salaries high enough for young adults to stake out on their own. So parents help their kids right up to the point they can no longer work, and then kids take over to provide for the fa…

I think we need to have a better idea what's meant by "family ties". I'm from the US. My teammate on a project is a woman from India. (We're both working in the US.) She doesn't have children, but I have a 9yo daughter. We talk about differences in how my wife and I raise our daughter versus how she was raised. My wife and I follow the trend in the US of being very involved in our daughter's life. We walk her to scho…

Actually, my experience (Indian-American, brought up in the States but currently studying in India), is sort of the opposite.

Americans inculcate a _lot_ more independence than Indians do.

For example, in the US:

- Kids often get jobs and earn their own pocket money at 13+. It's the norm in most places after 16.

- Kids fund their own education

- After 18, there's an expectation in many families that the child will leave and become independent (or at least start paying rent)

- Kids generally make their own life decisions

- This reverses in old age; "old people's homes" are common in the US. After retirement, parents stay separate, and if they're unable to take care of themselves will often move into one of these. Nuclear families are common

In India:

- Middle class kids will not earn until 18, mostly not until after college. When they do earn it's something you can brag about. Definitely not the norm.

- Education is funded by parents. I earned a lot of money last year (I'm a college student). When my friends asked me what I intended to do with it, I got quizzical looks when I said that I was repaying my education. (Higher ed isn't particularly expensive here, but it's not cheap either, and I sort of wanted to start being more independent)

- It is perfectly fine to stay home till ... forever.

- Life decisions are made by the family, sometimes. Marriage is an example of this (though arguably there's a lot of legacy cultural reasons behind that). But career choices are too. A ton of the folks in my college are there because their family wanted them to study engineering.

- Kids take care of their parents as they get older. Extended families are common.

YMMV, of course, but this is commonly how things go from talking with my peers in both countries. Perhaps what you're noticing is a difference in generations, not in countries. Parents are universally more involved in the minutae of their children's lives than they used to be in the past.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#137

Post by School-Cotton »

icebraining wrote: post #90
chrisBob wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the standard was to be paid on the 1st and the 15th, but you could opt for one monthly pay check if you had trouble saving for rent with the twice a month schedule. I never really thought about it. Are weekly or monthly that much more common?

I'm not from the US, and I've never heard of anyone paid biweekly, that's why I found it weird. According to the US Bureau of Labour Statistics, it's actually the most common schedule over there: http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/how-frequently-do-priva...

Out of curiosity, how often is it standard to be paid where you are from?

I've been paid twice monthly, and monthly. I also know of people being paid weekly.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#138

Post by sumedh »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #113

It looks like "shukriyaa" (शुक्रिया) is a way of saying 'thanks' in situations where formality is inappropriate. Can anyone confirm/deny? http://wikihow.com/Say-Thank-You-in-Hindi

Well atleast in Metros even if you are speaking in Hindi, you usually say thank you instead of "shukriyaa".

Pretty much everyone in Indian metro cities understands simple English words like Hi, Hello, OK, Bye, Thank you.

Coming back to your question then yes "shukriyaa" can be used instead of "thanks". "shukriyaa" is less formal than "dhanyavaad"

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#140

Post by Lawtonfogle »

ManFromUranus wrote: post #124
littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

What if that system also fosters corruption and nepotism? Need to hire somebody for a job? family first (you owe them remember?), tender a contract (family first) the list goes on. You are a public servant, someone comes to your office to get you to do the job that you were hired to do, but they're not your family, you don't owe them anything... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India Yeah that system is bet…

And the opposite does not? It makes calling in the debt owed much more discrete, which means the corruption is more conscious, but the transactional nature would foster corruption among those who are of higher power instead of those who are family.

In the culture grandparent comment describe, if someone comes into my office, any favoritism will be based on their being close to my family.

In a culture without that, if someone comes into my office, any favoritism will be based on their ability to offer me favoritism.

If anything, our system is worse because favoritism among the powerful is a worse problem that favoritism among families and friends.

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