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Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

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Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#131

Post by PerfectElement »

icebraining wrote: post #79
PerfectElement wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even though I see them as livestock, not pets" Isn't it funny how this is a completely arbitrary definition? The most sensible explanation I've seen about this phenomenon is called carnism and it's brilliantly explained by Dr. Melaine Joy in this TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg

No, it's not arbitrary at all, it's just subjective and depends on your personal relation with the animal. Frankly, that video sounds like BS to me. How much time did she spend within family farms that raise animals? The idea that you need "invisibility" or to abstract animals as non-individual or as objects is so untrue it's not even funny.

The fact that people think dogs have higher intrinsic value than pigs, and hence deserve more rights, is based on completely arbitrary characteristics. The proof of that is that dogs are seen as food in some cultures, cows are seen as sacred in others, etc. It's all part of belief systems that, in most cases, are inherited without being questioned.

I have no idea if she has spent time within family farms, but I would guess that she, like most people versed in animal rights, would strongly disagree with exploiting the bodies and reproductive systems of animals unnecessarily. Regardless of it being done in a factory farm or in the best family farm, where animals roam free until the day they are sent to the house of slaughter, at a young age.

If you sent a perfectly healthy dog (or horse, or cat, or elephant) to slaughter, for profit or pleasure, in a culture that sees those animals as members of their moral community, you would get a very different reaction from society.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#132

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #48

I don't know--good for this guy, but there's no way I'd do it. I got into technology in order to avoid a life of back-breaking manual labor. When I was a kid I had to go help bail hay on a farm, and then graduated to assisting my father doing construction jobs. Nailing shingles to a roof under the sun all day in the middle of the summer is great motivation to go for that job in an air conditioned office.

[deleted]

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#133

Post by ChuckMcM »

I have met a number of people over the years who have had similar transformations. They went from doing what they believed the should be doing, to something they believed in/wanted to be doing. The transformation is huge.

Life is way to short.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#134

Post by thoman23 »

I know nothing about farming, but I wouldn't have guessed the farming lifestyle would afford more free time than many programming jobs. You can get a good (but boring) programming job at a megacorp/bank/government and work 35 hours a week and still have lots of time for family. You don't have to succumb to the 80 hours/week startup mentality. Also, money is not meaningless. Even if you eschew the material lifestyle, you still need to consider the financial demands of raising children and saving for retirement.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#135

Post by crpatino »

jader201 wrote: post #16

Sounds like the OP was never a "programmer", but rather a farmer trapped inside a programmer's job. I think it takes courage (and a bit of risk) to completely shift the course of your career, especially while you have a family to support. I will be curious to hear if he sticks with it long term, but to me, it sounds like he never was designed to be a programmer. To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind…

> Sounds like the OP was never a "programmer", but rather a farmer trapped inside a programmer's job.

I don't know, we keep getting these stories about people that burn out and quit the industry, just when they are beginning to get good at the trade.

I think the ones that drop off might be the proverbial canaries in the coal mine. Many, many of us feel some sort of "ennui" with the realities of the job as it is, but only the most sensitive individuals are quitting now. Just as a token example, earlier this year I felt really down after realizing I might never get paid to work on a code base that I can truly love. I am not sure if this is something that happens to every profession or is just a programmer thing, but I am sure as hell I am not the only one.

It might be misguided to label those that quit as "not real programmers". They are telling us something about who we are and what we are doing, and it's as tempting as self defeating to pretend we didn't hear anything.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#136

Post by wpietri »

charlysisto wrote: post #20

Not to question this guy's remarkable decision or the article itself, just one expression I see quit often and makes me cringe each time, that is : the real world (referred here as a little haven of nature). Is the 19th century Industrial revolution just an illusion, the factories, the cars, the towns, the wars just a view of the spirit, and the little birds singing in the trees the real world ? Is the current (elect…

I believe the distinction suggested is not real vs imaginary, but real vs constructed.

I think it's a reasonable point. One of the useful tests for "realness" is what lasts, what is sustained without human effort. Artificial environments are in some sense a fantasy made real. Sufficiently advanced technologies are indistinguishable from magic because we are always trying to construct our dreams.

Our civilization is in many ways a collective fiction. The clearest example is money, which works only as long as we believe. But there are plenty of other essentially imaginary underpinnings to our constructed world. For example, the US's national ethos, the American Dream: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#137

Post by coldtea »

tlear wrote: post #122
brianwawok wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? My daughter hated the big city. "I can't even go outside alone". Who knows, maybe she will move back when she is 20 and love it.

Thats a problem with messed up North American culture. Kids should be able to go outside by themselves in cities. They do exactly that all over the world. In places much more dangerous then normal city in US. I commuted to school at age of 9, having to switch streetcars and walk for 15 mins. Total time of about 40 mins one way. Often I would walk back through the city instead, this would take about 2 hours of wonderi…

>Thats a problem with messed up North American culture. Kids should be able to go outside by themselves in cities. They do exactly that all over the world

They did exactly that in the US too, up until the eighties -- and at a time when cities had crime rates even higher than today.

There is this nice article from the Austin Chronicle about it (pdf):

http://michaelventura.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/This-Is...

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#138

Post by snikeris »

ccallebs wrote: post #103
ccallebs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in. Not at all joking / exaggerating. My wife and I would love something like this. We are currently looking to switch cities with no specific desire for one place so the iron is hot. I'd not limit it to engineers though -- just makers in general.

There seems to be enough interest in this to actually start talking seriously about it. I created a Slack account for it. https://farmcombinator.slack.com/ You'll need an invite, so if you're interested in this sort of thing seek me out on Twitter (@ccallebs) or send me your email (chuck@callebs.io).

Thanks for the invite!

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#139

Post by coldtea »

brianwawok wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have this feeling that kids tend to hate where they grow up Even so, you don't hear as many kids hating on the big city as they hate on the suburbs or the countryside. I mean, kids hatred for the suburbs have inspired tons of movies and songs, for the city, not so much.

Really? My daughter hated the big city. "I can't even go outside alone". Who knows, maybe she will move back when she is 20 and love it.

Well, if she's much smaller than 20 (basically: not a teenager interested in boys and music and such yet), then this does't apply. And of course there are always exceptions to the rule...

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#140

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

pjc50 wrote: post #124
iagooar wrote: post #28

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and this post definitely gives me some motivation. I'm a programmer who loves to code and build stuff, learning new programming languages and frameworks, discussing about architecture, etc. I love shipping new features and making customers happy. BUT inside of me a desire has been growing to go back to the roots, to live a life closer to the nature. I feel the need to spend…

This is essentially the hippy commune / kibbutz concept, with the wrinkle of generating most of its "foreign exchange" through tech work rather than pure agricultural produce. With a bit of careful tax planning you could offset all the fun unproductive stuff against tax and claim both R&D and small farmer allowances. Division of tasks is where this kind of thing tends to fall down.

> hippy commune / kibbutz concept

It's been tried over-and-over-and-over for centuries and there's a ton of research. If it's not based on a religion, it fails, is the long and short of it. Only works with religious people.

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