When Is Cheryl's Birthday? • Hacker News Board

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#131

Post by apricot » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

sukilot wrote: post #114

chongli wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part is not the logic, it's actually figuring out that this is a logic puzzle that needs to be solved by deduction and not a bunch of nonsense with terrible grammar. To borrow your Ode To Joy example, it's like trying to learn to play the piece after the sheet music had been torn and tattered, burned and stained with coffee. Sure, the music is simple once you get past all of the garbage in your way. The orig…

Please don't confuse a different country's dialect of English with "terrible grammar"

Is "Yesterday I eat noodles" considered grammatically correct English in Singapore?

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#132

Post by andrewprock » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #130

andrewprock wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, logical analysis is generally not well suited to the understanding of human behavior.

If you think this is a question about human behaviour then you've gone very wrong indeed.

Given that this question is about humans, and discusses their behavior, it's clear you are making some assumptions about the structure of the question which are not present in the question.

That's certainly a reasonable thing to do.

What's not reasonable is to assume that the assumptions you make are going to match the assumptions of others. Likewise, when make assumptions there is a chance that the assumptions you make are incorrect.

That may or may not be the case here.

But the fact remains, you need to make some very strong assumptions for what you have said to be true.

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#133

Post by Nursie » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

andrewprock wrote: post #132

Nursie wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think this is a question about human behaviour then you've gone very wrong indeed.

Given that this question is about humans, and discusses their behavior, it's clear you are making some assumptions about the structure of the question which are not present in the question. That's certainly a reasonable thing to do. What's not reasonable is to assume that the assumptions you make are going to match the assumptions of others. Likewise, when make assumptions there is a chance that the assumptions you m…

Nope, I'm not making assumptions, I'm using the data presented.

>> Given that this question is about humans

Please note that nowhere in the questions does it say the participants are human. This is one of your many assumptions.

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#134

Post by andrewprock » Mon, Apr 27, 2015, 3:03 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #122

baddox wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hard part is not the logic, it's actually figuring out that this is a logic puzzle that needs to be solved by deduction and not a bunch of nonsense with terrible grammar. I am seeing this claim a lot, but I do not understand it. Why would readers assume that a riddle is a bunch of nonsense, rather than something with an objective answer? > To borrow your Ode To Joy example, it's like trying to learn to play the…

I am seeing this claim a lot, but I do not understand it. Why would readers assume that a riddle is a bunch of nonsense, rather than something with an objective answer? Different people carry different assumptions with them throughout their lives. Not everybody approaches a logic puzzle with the mental preparation of solving logic puzzles. They aren't looking to analyze the statements and they don't carry the assumpt…

"But you do have trouble understanding that other people might be different from you; with different experiences, assumptions, etc."

In essence, this is the true test of the puzzle; not whether you can solve the intended puzzle, but whether or not you can muster sufficient social and analytical empathy to work with others when your assumptions turn out to be incongruent with the intended assumptions.

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#135

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Apr 27, 2015, 7:28 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #126

andrewprock wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe assuming they are "just going alphabetically" and/or that there is some sort of implicit moderator managing the conversation qualify as non-obvious assumptions.

Assume nothing, simply take what's stated. This happened and then this and then this. If you can't piece everything together then... well you're not suited to logical analysis.

The vociferous objections on this sub-thread are rather amusing. It seems several people missed the bit where I said I was OK with the official solution at first, but kept being bothered about the problem construction. I doubt Andrew has any problem articulating the default 'correct' solution either. I was thinking about the problem construction anyway because I was annoyed that the problem as stated in Singapore includes several glaring errors of English grammar which were an annoying distraction, eg' I know that Bernhard does not know too' rather than '...does not know either.' English is an official language in Singapore so I was surprised that such obvious errors would be allowed to creep into a logic problem; it's akin to muddying up a mathematical equation with '-(-x)'.

That started me thinking outside the confines of the problem and about the implicit assumptions that were in the problem statement itself. The 'inability to piece everything together' is entirely imaginary on your part.

Re: When Is Cheryl's Birthday?

#136

Post by andrewprock » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:05 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #133

andrewprock wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this question is about humans, and discusses their behavior, it's clear you are making some assumptions about the structure of the question which are not present in the question. That's certainly a reasonable thing to do. What's not reasonable is to assume that the assumptions you make are going to match the assumptions of others. Likewise, when make assumptions there is a chance that the assumptions you m…

Nope, I'm not making assumptions, I'm using the data presented. >> Given that this question is about humans Please note that nowhere in the questions does it say the participants are human. This is one of your many assumptions.

You are correct, that the participants are people, with birthdays, and capable of speaking, is an assumption. You appear to be taking issue with that assumption. I suppose that is your prerogative, but it probably leaves you in the vanishing minority.