Nice solution for corporate foolishness
Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
131–140 of 303 posts
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#132I almost (not really) want to buy a Keurig machine JUST so I can hack it. Side question: any of you use the term "K-Cups" instead of "Keurig cups"?
K-cup® is their official name. I've never heard anyone use "Keurig cup" before. Is that a thing where you are?
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#133Reminds me of this well thought out copy protection from a decade ago: http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/05/52...
> "I wonder what type of copy protection will come next?" one posting on alt.music.prince read. "Maybe they'll ban markers."
Instead, they shipped rootkits on music CDs. In hindsight, banning markers would have made too much sense.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#134I love how such a simple solution can bypass a DRM scheme that Keurig probably invested considerable time and effort into producing. In some cases DRM is warranted, but for a coffee machine, it is just plain ridiculous and anticompetitive to have DRM to block out competitor coffee pods when history has proven that printer manufacturers like HP have been trying and consistently failing to do this for years now.
So simple to bypass, I expect they didn't spend much effort or money at all. They aren't trying to make an unbreakable system, they're trying to make a deterrent. If they had made the detection method too complicated, it could lead to false rejections and that would ultimately be more costly. They just needed a method that they can prove in court that a third party is using to defeat their DRM. This is the equivalent…
I agree, but I don't know that it's even necessary for Keurig to go to court to realize the value of the DRM scheme.
Their weak DRM certainly serves as a deterrent to the average consumer, but even more so to the mainstream coffee distributors that have been selling "knock off" cups up to this point.
Community Coffee, which is a major roaster/distributor in the deep south, just caved and penned a licensing agreement with Keurig:
http://theadvocate.com/news/acadiana/10981551-123/community-...
Prior to the (negative) publicity surrounding the 2.0 launch, I didn't pay enough attention to notice that the Community Coffee K-cups I've bought (exclusively and in bulk at Sam's Club) for the three or four years that I've owned the machine weren't bonafide Keurig cups, but I think a typical consumer (and retailers, too) would likely be put off if the pods came with instructions for cutting the lid off an authentic Keurig cup and taping them onto the machine.
I'm betting every region has their version of Community Coffee and that Keurig will succeed in converting many of them into licensees. There might be negative publicity that is seen by those of us who care about such things, but on average, Keurig will come out ahead -- maybe without filing a lawsuit.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
The second reason they've gained massive popularity is that people all want different shit. "But I want Hot Tea" "But I want vanilla frappa-bullshit" "But I want Hot Cocoa" "Your coffee is too strong" "Your coffee is too weak" It's the expensive convenient machine that shuts everyone the fuck up. What's the price on that?
That's precisely why we own one. My wife and I not arguing every morning over who made the coffee and how is well worth the price we pay in K-cups.
And the price to the environment, and the price to a relationship unable to handle a minor disagreement? Perhaps you haven't considered all the factors at play.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#136Not siding with Keurig, but just out of curiosity, how would you to create a DRM scheme that can't be bypassed with this replay attack? Apparently [0] the DRM works by shining a light on an ink marking and registering the wavelength of the light reflected back. I figure one simple scheme would be to 'burn' the key after it is read. i.e. physically disable the DRM ink by heat/perforation/other ink, so that once used,…
They could put the DRM ink marking over the part of the tinfoil that gets punctured - voila, one-use DRM.
When I was drinking coffee, I would usually brew through a K-cup twice in a row to get a larger cup of coffee. My v1.0 machine makes me open the lid and close it again to brew the second time. I guess that method would not work with your idea. That would anger me even more than this DRM already would.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#137Anyone who uses a Keurig needs to: 1) punch themselves in the nuts, 2) go plant a tree. If you drink it out of a styrofoam cup, plant 2 trees.
that is, if the person only uses disposable K-cups. this wouldn't apply to anyone using it to brew their own coffee without trashing a plastic cup every time.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#138One way to look at the razors and blades business model that Keurig is doing here is like so: 1. The consumer purphases product A (here the coffee maker) on the normal consumer market we're all familiar with. 2. Doing so forces the consumer to purchase product B (here K-cups) on a different market. Keurig's goal is to control the second market. By making having all the market power, they can jack up prices to the con…
I don't understand why it's a different market. Do you mean that cartridges are just intrinsically different from the actual machine using the cartridges? This is identical to printers, so would you say the market for ink cartridges is different than the market for printers? On a literal level I suppose this is correct, but I wouldn't consider pens and pen ink to be different markets... Maybe I haven't thought it thr…
A market (as far as economics or competition law goes) is demarcated by whether the items within it are substitutes, not by their intrinsic nature or subject.
Examples:
- Aluminium foil and cling film are both in the market for flexible food wrapping materials
- Aluminium foil and aluminium rulers are _not_ in the same market, as they are not substitutes (alternatives)
In cases where it's not clear whether two items are in the same market (e.g. tea bags and instant coffee powder could be considered substitutes) competition regulators will use historical price data to estimate the XED (cross-elasticity of demand) between two products. If XED is high (e.g. a reduction in the price of tea bags significantly reduces demand for instant coffee powder) then the two goods are substitutes, and are deemed to be in the same market.
Now, apply this to your coffee pod/machine and pen/ink examples.
Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
#139Anyone who uses a Keurig needs to: 1) punch themselves in the nuts, 2) go plant a tree. If you drink it out of a styrofoam cup, plant 2 trees.
1) It's a decent one-shot coffee maker. 2) You can buy reusable cups[1].