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European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

bbc.co.uk

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Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#131

Post by gress »

DannyBee wrote: post #77
wfjackson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you're unwilling to apply that same logic to Ben Edelman and pretty much call him a paid shill. At least the commenter you were replying to noted the potential conflict of interest, unlike you.

Because it's not the same? Ben publishes pieces in newspapers, journals, and testimony, and pretends they are objective while being paid by companies to write them. If you think this is the same as me or anyone else commenting on HN about their personal opinions, i'm not sure what to tell you. When I start submitting congressional testimony on behalf of google, and we start talking about it on HN, i'll happily note t…

Are you saying that HN is less influential than newspapers and journals?

Are you pretending to be unaffected by the incentives you have to defend Google?

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#132

Post by adventured »

ouiya wrote: post #97
arikrak wrote: post #41

I know this won't happen, but it's a ridiculous idea. Google's search revenue is what helps fund many of its other projects; they couldn't be separated.

You're right, which is what's generally considered an abuse of monopoly. No opinions from me on this- but funding or subsidizing other businesses using a market dominant business constitutes abuse of monopoly.

Funding other projects within your business, using your primary source of revenue, does not automatically qualify as abuse of monopoly. That's a non-informed opinion if I've ever heard one.

1) Google has never been legally shown to have a monopoly by any of the relevant anti-trust entities, whether in the US / Europe / Asia.

2) To claim a harmful monopoly, you have to show that consumers have been harmed. That has not been done either. This alone invalidates everything you said.

3) Funding self-driving car projects, google glass, maps, etc. is a hilarious example of consumers being harmed. Google hardly makes money with maps, yet they continue to produce a free-to-use, outstanding product. I can't think of a greater win for consumers than that. There is no consumer harm occurring.

Your last claim is wrong and has zero basis in actual anti-trust law. Funding or subsidizing other businesses with a market dominant business, DOES NOT inherently constitute abuse of monopoly. If you were right, Intel would never be allowed to invest into any other business; Cisco would never be allowed to invest into any other business; Microsoft would never be allowed to invest into any other business; eBay would never be allowed to invest into another business; and so on. You are not right of course.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#133

Post by davidgerard »

snuxoll wrote: post #68
psykovsky wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which customer service are you talking about?

The only real customer service Google has is for active AdWords advertisers, if you are on the AdSense side or an end-user of any of its other services then good luck getting any real assistance from them. Microsoft has amazing customer service in comparison for its Live services, which is saying a LOT.

That's okay! Google treats its actual customers with contempt, as well as treating its product with contempt.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#134

Post by adventured »

dogma1138 wrote: post #128

If i were Google i would give the EU a day without Google. But in any case the EUP can vote for what ever they wan't they do not have any legislative power, as it (and all other) power (s) within the EU lie in the hands of the European Commission, which luckily is not "democratically" elected and it's members are appointed by the Council of Europe. The EU parliament for some time now has been a mess of fringe politic…

I think if the Germans want to play nationalistic economic war, the US should return fire at Porsche, BMW, and Daimler - claiming that they possess abusive and unfair positions in the luxury car market, and proceed to levy extreme penalties in the US market on those companies (with the US market being 1/4 of their auto sales). Or perhaps try to force those automakers to divest those brands for the US market.

If the Europeans aren't careful, all they're going to accomplish is a tit-for-tat economic war.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#135

Post by richthegeek »

snuxoll wrote: post #102
ponyous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? How is Microsoft not opt-in?

Beats me, both Apple and Microsoft require an account be created to get the most out of their devices and services, but making an account doesn't force you to create a new email address in the process unlike Google.

I suppose it's that 90% of offices around the world use Microsoft products (Windows, Office, etc...) so it's very difficult to not use them both for users (they must use it in work) and for companies (try explaining that you fucked something up because Pages displayed something different to Word)

Similarly, massive chunks of the internet rely on Google (and Facebook) for functionality like authentication. Aside from that, I'd struggle to suggest a different mail provider than gmail such is there monopoly in that space.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#136

Post by adventured »

lumberjack wrote: post #23
FreakyT wrote: post #2

It's pretty clear that this and other their other specifically anti-Google rulings are about protectionism and nothing more.

There isn't yet an EU based competitor for this protectionism to make sense. But if there was, I see no reason why the EU shouldn't try to help it gain market share. It's in their interest for various reasons and more competition in search would really benefit everyone but Google.

It's being done on behalf of Google competitors who have been complaining loudly in Europe. And it's being done on behalf of German publishers who want some extra extortion money and they're using the government to get it.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#137

Post by raverbashing »

Karunamon wrote: post #80
snuxoll wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only real customer service Google has is for active AdWords advertisers, if you are on the AdSense side or an end-user of any of its other services then good luck getting any real assistance from them. Microsoft has amazing customer service in comparison for its Live services, which is saying a LOT.

Pay for an Apps account. This gets you a live person to talk to and an SLA. Even if it's just one account on your personal domain (cost: $5/month), that alone makes it worth it. Shockingly, Google allocates their CS to people who pay for their service.

Yeah, too bad that I'm referring to a PAID Apps account

This happened to a friend of mine:

Shut out of their account for some days, with a "we'll look into it" and no good explanation.

Calling did not help

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#138

Post by tptacek »

gress wrote: post #131
DannyBee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not the same? Ben publishes pieces in newspapers, journals, and testimony, and pretends they are objective while being paid by companies to write them. If you think this is the same as me or anyone else commenting on HN about their personal opinions, i'm not sure what to tell you. When I start submitting congressional testimony on behalf of google, and we start talking about it on HN, i'll happily note t…

Are you saying that HN is less influential than newspapers and journals? Are you pretending to be unaffected by the incentives you have to defend Google?

If you're going to impugn someone else's integrity, could you perhaps sign your name to the comment? I have no idea who you are. I'm just going to assume you work for Alibaba, or Vk.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#139

Post by tptacek »

vdaniuk wrote: post #96
tptacek wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charming. The "external entity or random event" part of that comment is what really sold it. You're all class.

Yeah, because surely YC would give up one of their most important generators of competitive advantage willingly. Also, ofc, with you being one of the top HN members would not support that. I don't have any personal benefit from any outcome, but you do. Who is all class now? edit: I am curious, in what way, shape or form "external entity or random event" part of my comment is related to either presence or lack of my c…

It'll be amusing to watch you try to build an intellectually coherent narrative out of (a) insulting strangers for supposed conflicts of interest, as if it was possible to do that without directly questioning their integrity, and (b) openly suggesting that coercive force be used to shut down a forum that happens to host arguments you don't agree with.

Re: European Parliament votes in favour of breaking up Google

#140

Post by Someone »

venomsnake wrote: post #36

EU bureaucracy logic at its best - go after google and microsoft, but we let apple do whatever they want. For me they with their closed ecosystem are both bigger danger and more anti competitive than both Google and Microsoft combined. Or at least force them to accept other web browsers in their store.

Let them do what they want? http://online.wsj.com/articles/apples-irish-tax-deal-breache..., http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/dec/14/european-commis..., http://www.zdnet.com/eu-plans-stronger-consumer-law-enforcem..., http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/03/european...
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