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Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

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Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#131

Post by JoshTriplett »

jordigh wrote: post #118
JoshTriplett wrote: post #73

I'm one of the folks working on the GNOME defense campaign. Happy to answer any questions people might have.

Why that amount of money? Is that how much the SFLC needs? I assume you're picking the SFLC to represent you, right? Does the FSF handle any of Gnome's finances? As a GNU package, I thought there still was a relationship between the FSF and Gnome. I ask because as a fellow GNU-in-arms, I might be able to make a case for sending you a bit of Octave's money. We gotta look out for each other, right?

> Why that amount of money?

Our counsel has advised us that we will need that much to oppose the registration of the first set of 10 trademark applications.

> Is that how much the SFLC needs? I assume you're picking the SFLC to represent you, right?

We're currently working with pro-bono counsel from an independent attorney. The amount is how much we've been advised that we'll need to successfully defend the trademark.

> Does the FSF handle any of Gnome's finances?

No; the GNOME Foundation is an independent 501(c)3.

> As a GNU package, I thought there still was a relationship between the FSF and Gnome.

Not a financial relationship, but GNOME is still part of the GNU project.

> I ask because as a fellow GNU-in-arms, I might be able to make a case for sending you a bit of Octave's money. We gotta look out for each other, right?

The thought is appreciated, but if you're talking about funds donated to GNU Octave, I don't think that'd be appropriate. We're raising funds specifically for this defense campaign, rather than using general donations to GNOME; for the same reason, we shouldn't be using donations people offered to Octave for Octave development. But thanks for your consideration.

One thing you could do: we'd appreciate it if you promoted the campaign further across other projects, such as via the news feeds and social media accounts of those projects.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#132

Post by misterbishop »

gavinballard wrote: post #92
ekianjo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trademark has barely anything to do with IP laws. You are referring to patents, and trademark legislation has nothing to do with patents.

Trademarks are a form of intellectual property.

'Intellectual Property' is not a legal classification, and shouldn't be. Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, and looser-defined 'trade secrets' all have distinct purposes. Saying "Intellectual Property" when you mean "Trademark" gives the impression that the holder has all kinds of legal protections which don't actually apply.

Over the long term, there's danger that legal theories will change to further expand the rights of corporate publishers.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#133

Post by crazypyro »

tluyben2 wrote: post #99
jacquesm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should definitely save that pic and a timestamp or something to that effect. Bonus points if you do it in front of a lawyer in the right jurisdiction.

It's a bit more extreme than that; read his summary; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/93i0gkawa4q15lh/2014-11-... Edit: cannot be the one you meant? He is part of the GNOME foundation...

Message him pretending to be a recruiter and ask him which one he works on.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#134

Post by cs702 »

Wow, all evidence suggests that the team in charge of this at Groupon is acting in bad faith, trying to bulldoze over a non-profit with fewer financial resources. (I doubt Groupon would ever attempt something like this against a financially-well-backed brand such as, say, "Apple.")

Consider: (1) it's essentially impossible that no one involved had ever heard of the Gnome desktop (it's the top result when I search for "gnome" on Google); and (2) after being contacted by the Gnome Foundation, Groupon filed even more trademark applications.

There are a lot of decent, hard-working hackers at Groupon, and quite a few of them, I'm sure, regularly visit HN. They won't be happy to find out about this.

Are there any Groupon insiders here willing to comment on this, maybe anonymously?

--

UPDATE: Groupon just released an official response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590343 -- they now say they will be "glad to look for another name." If they really mean it, kudos to them for changing their position!

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#135

Post by toyg »

rasengan wrote: post #72

One of the lead security people at Groupon has a big GNOME sticker on his laptop in a pic on LinkedIn. This tells me that groupon is about to get pooped on.

Or that he's going to be fired for being a liability to the company.

From Groupon, I expect the worst.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#136

Post by misterbishop »

StevePerkins wrote: post #129

How is this trademark infringement? Generally speaking, you're allowed to use a trademarked word in a different field (and even trademark in that field yourself!). The classic example is Dominos pizza vs. Domino sugar: http://www.wolverine-startuplaw.com/2014/03/06/analyzing-the... Here, "Gnome" is being used in two "technical" contexts... but that's a pretty broad brush to paint with for claiming overlap.

Considering both projects comprise a software user interface, I'd say it's close enough to be concerned.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#138

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tluyben2 wrote: post #99
jacquesm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should definitely save that pic and a timestamp or something to that effect. Bonus points if you do it in front of a lawyer in the right jurisdiction.

It's a bit more extreme than that; read his summary; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/93i0gkawa4q15lh/2014-11-... Edit: cannot be the one you meant? He is part of the GNOME foundation...

This just went from trademark infringement to calculated, evil, purposive attempt to co-opt someone else's trademark. Seriously, I hope Groupon get crushed under the court - countering this sort of activity is the entire purpose of TM law.

Whoever is steering things at Groupon must be pretty evil to try and play this out.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#139

Post by jordigh »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #131
jordigh wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why that amount of money? Is that how much the SFLC needs? I assume you're picking the SFLC to represent you, right? Does the FSF handle any of Gnome's finances? As a GNU package, I thought there still was a relationship between the FSF and Gnome. I ask because as a fellow GNU-in-arms, I might be able to make a case for sending you a bit of Octave's money. We gotta look out for each other, right?

> Why that amount of money? Our counsel has advised us that we will need that much to oppose the registration of the first set of 10 trademark applications. > Is that how much the SFLC needs? I assume you're picking the SFLC to represent you, right? We're currently working with pro-bono counsel from an independent attorney. The amount is how much we've been advised that we'll need to successfully defend the trademark…

> The thought is appreciated, but if you're talking about funds donated to GNU Octave, I don't think that'd be appropriate.

The funds were donated to the FSF for Octave. However, many of us in Octave use Gnome, so I could see a point in saying that we in Octave need to ensure that Gnome works well for us. Also, we collect the funds in a rather ambiguous language, without any promise of how they will be spent, within the boundaries of the FSF's 503(c).

> One thing you could do: we'd appreciate it if you promoted the campaign further across other projects, such as via the news feeds and social media accounts of those projects.

We don't have much of a web presence, but I'll promote the Gnome problem in whatever scanty resources we have. Of course, the FSF is also doing this for you, right?

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#140

Post by zemanel »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #73

I'm one of the folks working on the GNOME defense campaign. Happy to answer any questions people might have.

Gnome has definitely had an impact on my career, as it was my desktop of choice for a long time, both professionally and at home. Thank you for your hard work, i've donated $50 (not much but). Go get them boys :)
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