Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana • Hacker News Board

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#131

Post by adventured » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:08 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #48

waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this situation is overstated a lot. Something like 8% of prisoners in the US are in privately run prisons, which could be a problem, but it's not the massive number that is often implied.

That's still 8% too much. That still means there are millionaires out there lobbying to keep drug laws as is so they can keep filling their prisons. And the other 92% of prisons probably have a ton of people behind bars due to drug laws because of the 8% of prisons that lobby for & profit from them.

As though the 92% isn't attempting to hold onto its massive profit system. There's vastly more money flowing into pockets in the 92% than in the 8%, that's logically obvious.

Jobs, graft, construction, maintenance, slave labor, etc. - huge sums of profit derived from the government prison system, far more than in the corporate system.

As though the 92% of that equation is looking to give up its jobs and tax dollars. Because we just know how much the government likes to give up its spending.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#132

Post by csorrell » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:11 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #104

toyg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis and opium poppies cannot be used to produce the same end-product. From what I understand, hemp can replace cotton in most end-products; being much easier to grow (and hence cheaper / more plentiful), it could potentially flood markets earlier reserved to cotton, hence depressing prices. Say you have two farmers; one grows cannabis, the other cotton. Because cannabis is easier to grow, the cannabis farmer has…

I am well aware about the two plant species and their uses by humans. The original poster said MJ, which is not hemp. Marijuana is psychoactive and hemp is not, though they are the same species. The economic idea of "replacement" is that one good (Coca-Cola) can be replaced by a comparable good (Pepsi) based on price discrimination or differences in quality. My point is that MJ can displace a comparable good (another…

At this time though, the only reason farmers are not allowed to grow hemp is because hemp is related to marijuana. We would have to assume, that if marijuana was legal to grow, hemp would be as well. Legalizing marijuana probably would upset the cotton industry.

edit: Just re-read the parent comment that spawned this exchange. I get the distinction you are trying to make.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#133

Post by eli » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:11 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #4

eli wrote: post #2

DC and Oregon too. I think DC in particular will be interesting because Congress has power over DC it does not have with states. Could be the opening for a national debate (or the newly elected Congress could simply crush it).

The current Congress could simply crush it, no need to wait for the next Congress to start.

Anything's possible, but just due to timing that seems unlikely. The Council says they probably won't submit the legislation for review until December or January.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#134

Post by sliverstorm » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:13 PM UTC

mturmon wrote: post #111

sliverstorm wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not the growers themselves, but there's a lot of money there, and I guarantee somewhere along the line it flows through the hands of people with wealth & power to protect.

Not yet, in CA. That time will come, but in 2010 (Prop. 19) the growers and vendors were not organized enough to make anything happen. The inevitable consolidation has still not occurred in 2014, but you're right, it will eventually.

No, the point is the black market wanted Prop. 19 defeated, because if you legalize it they lose their profits. (Some parts of) the black market wants drugs to say illegal.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#135

Post by adventured » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:15 PM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #96

josho wrote: post #91

I can't help but to wonder if the tobacco lobby is somehow involved. For decades society fought against smoking and has largely won. So, what happened to all of those tobacco crops? I wonder if that industry is behind the legalize movement so they can shift their production to another crop. Interesting historical fact is that initial tensions over marijuana came about because slaves, and later Mexican labourers were…

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with: - Racism - Fear - Protection of Corporate Profits - Yellow Journalism - Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators - Personal Career Advancement and Greed These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal. Some messed up stuff right here: http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal...

There's a lot more money to be made domestically by legalization, when it comes to corporate profits, than there is in prohibition.

The beer companies proved that the last time around.

If legalization were decided by corporate profits, the war on drugs would have ended a long time ago. Big pharma would love nothing more than to hand out all sorts of prescription drugs over the counter. Big ag farms would love nothing more than to grow and sell pot.

It's blatantly obvious that corporate profits are in fact not the issue.

Right now, a lot of that money is outside the country, in the hands of cartels, middle-men, etc. That could be mostly brought home, and it would bolster corporate profits tremendously, to the tune of billions in profit per year.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#136

Post by smsm42 » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:20 PM UTC

japhyr wrote: post #7

Here's an interesting piece of the Alaska marijuana legal status. We just voted to legalize recreational marijuana use, which includes growing and selling marijuana. I'm happy to see it pass because possession has been legal here for a long time, but sales and distribution has not. That's a murky legal situation, which I'm happy to see cleared up. But last night an article ran in our local paper stating that the Coas…

It just boggles the mind how perversely government logic looks here. So Alaskans say: we are OK with people using marijuana, we see no problem with it. And then the Feds come and say - well, we are still going to arrest and imprison you if you do it, despite the clear will of the people of Alaska, because we can. We know we don't actually change anything as we absolutely can not prevent people of Alaska from using marijuana, but we still will prosecute random people unlucky enough to be caught by us in Alaska while doing the thing completely legal and OK in Alaska, because that's what we do.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#137

Post by jconn » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:22 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #53

The Liberal Canadian government of the 90s toyed with the idea of marijuana decriminalization, but the opposing argument that was always raised was that the Americans would be so staunchly against it. Back in the 90s I would not have expected all other "Cascadian" states would legalize marijuana before British Columbia.

Here in Vancouver, BC, it seems to be treated as being de facto legal.

You can walk into a dispensary, make an appointment with their in-house naturopath and claim to have any of a long list of medical conditions which includes insomnia, digestive problems etc. As long as the naturopath signs off on a form stating that you have told them you have a condition that is on the list - you are eligible for membership at the dispensary with no prescription necessary.

Within 5 blocks of my house there are two such dispensaries, one of with is renting a retail unit that used to belong to a high-end salon, so essentially anyone can head on in to a clean, safe store and choose from a wide variety of cannabis products.

Obviously we still have the problems caused by criminalized marijuana to some extent (criminal records preventing employment, wasted resources etc.) but it's impressive how far things have come without decriminalization actually passing into law.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#138

Post by smsm42 » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:32 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #87

Alupis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue at the Federal level is not too long ago the US went around bullying UN nations into signing a unified drug treaty which is in effect for I believe 90 years. The idea was that if all countries agree on banning certain drugs, it can have a more unified effort in eradicating said drugs. It mostly targeted hard drugs, but marijuana is also named in the treaty. It would be very difficult for the US to back out…

That's a very good point - it's the basic reason that Obama can't 'end the drug war with a stroke of his pen' as some people seem to imagine, because treaties ratified by the US have almost constitutional standing in legal terms, and need to be formally derogated rather than legislated away. While the US could certainly do so without suffering meaningful sanctions or major geopolitical harm over the long term, indiff…

Given that the executive branch has prosecutorial discretion and never has been shy of using it when it mattered, I do not believe the "treaties make us do this" argument. Maybe the federal government could not have full de-jure legalize for some technical reasons. But it is completely capable to restrain the zeal of prosecution and reduce both the number of cases and the priority of those to a wide degree. If only they wanted to. Instead, the government tries to squash the legalize even when it happens (look up Operation Choke Point[1]). It's not something forced by treaties, it's a voluntary act. Not that the US is in mortal fear of sanctions from Pakistan or Colombia for not fighting drugs enough, but it's not treaties that make police kill a teen because they suspect he has a small bag of drugs [2] or kill a senior citizen in his own bed because they suspect he has some drugs (he didn't) [3]. It's something that the government can and must fix, and no treaty prevents it from doing so. The legal technicalities can come later, but the switch from a mentality where the government is at war with its own citizens should happen now. It should have happened years ago, actually.

[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014...

[2] http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/05/teen-dead-after...

[3] http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/15/yet-another-example-of-why...

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#139

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:33 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #136

japhyr wrote: post #7

Here's an interesting piece of the Alaska marijuana legal status. We just voted to legalize recreational marijuana use, which includes growing and selling marijuana. I'm happy to see it pass because possession has been legal here for a long time, but sales and distribution has not. That's a murky legal situation, which I'm happy to see cleared up. But last night an article ran in our local paper stating that the Coas…

It just boggles the mind how perversely government logic looks here. So Alaskans say: we are OK with people using marijuana, we see no problem with it. And then the Feds come and say - well, we are still going to arrest and imprison you if you do it, despite the clear will of the people of Alaska, because we can. We know we don't actually change anything as we absolutely can not prevent people of Alaska from using ma…

[deleted]

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#140

Post by TylerE » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 9:37 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #136

japhyr wrote: post #7

Here's an interesting piece of the Alaska marijuana legal status. We just voted to legalize recreational marijuana use, which includes growing and selling marijuana. I'm happy to see it pass because possession has been legal here for a long time, but sales and distribution has not. That's a murky legal situation, which I'm happy to see cleared up. But last night an article ran in our local paper stating that the Coas…

It just boggles the mind how perversely government logic looks here. So Alaskans say: we are OK with people using marijuana, we see no problem with it. And then the Feds come and say - well, we are still going to arrest and imprison you if you do it, despite the clear will of the people of Alaska, because we can. We know we don't actually change anything as we absolutely can not prevent people of Alaska from using ma…

This cuts both ways.... do you really think, that, say, Mississippi, should be able to inact anything 51% of the voters vote for? It'd be back to the Jim Crow days.