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Please remove mitsuhiko/*

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Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#131

Post by sfk »

Cakez0r wrote: post #78
sfk wrote: post #14

If open source parasites like tip4commit don't learn, the next logical step is to trademark projects and send DMCA notices without wasting any further time. Also, with this kind of sleazy behavior, the advertising clause in the BSD license suddenly becomes very appealing again.

Giving money to open source developers. How parasitical.

Overloading productive open source devs with spam and administrative bullshit is parasitic. (Allegedly) collecting money after a project has told them to stop is parasitic at best.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#132

Post by danbruc »

taneliv wrote: post #93
danbruc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it can have consequences - how would you justify punishing somebody for something somebody else did?

I'm quite sure it can have consequences (just don't think it will). Some countries have declared bitcoin to be illegal (see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Bitcoin_by_country for details), so it may be enough to participate in a scheme where receiving them is typical to put someone in jeopardy. As to punishing somebody for actions of others, that is perhaps not typical (although I think some cou…

But you did not participate unless you define participate as having your name show up in some database. For your other examples, yes, you can of course become suspect and get some trouble if somebody wants to, but still someone has to prove that you are actually responsible. I meant it in the sense of getting fined, arrested or whatnot, not in the sense of costing you time which may of course not be negligible in serious cases.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#133

Post by JohnTHaller »

colanderman wrote: post #10

From the FAQ: > What happens to unclaimed tips (if recipient doesn't sign in and specify his/her bitcoin address)? Funds that are not claimed during 30 days get returned back to the project. Presumably "the project" in the answer refers to tip4commit? If so, isn't tip4commit committing fraud by advertising that tips go to the intended recipient, when in fact, if the recipient does not participate, they go into tip4co…

They mean the overall project the individual contributor was contributing to I believe. But, what happens if the overall project isn't participating? Does tip4commit keep it?

I also wonder if tip4commit has looked into whether there is a legal requirement for them to escheat the funds to the state to hold for the individual if the individual doesn't claim it.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#134

Post by gerbal »

imrehg wrote: post #73
bhc wrote: post #67

I believe Flattr does something similar. They will accept donations on behalf of a YouTube channel (or Instagram, Soundcloud, etc.) whether the content creator opted in or not and release the fund when the creator claims his/her donations.

Bountysource[1] seems to be even closer, not sure if that got any such complaints. [1]: https://www.bountysource.com/

Bounty Source makes it pretty clear the bounties aren't from the project maintainers, and bounties aren't collected or solicited as if they are from or for the project maintainers..

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#135

Post by sjs382 »

Please send donations for the Django project directly to me. Once the donations accumulate to more than $3000, I will email the Django developers, requesting that they come get the donations.

And if the Django project doesn't come get the donations within 30 days, we don't tell you what happens to the donations. What happens to the money, if its not claimed, may (or may not) go against the wishes of yourself or the Django developers (that we're collecting money on behalf of, without permission). Also, sending these donations exposes the developers to serious legal consequences.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#136

Post by sharpneli »

danbruc wrote: post #120
sharpneli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Finland all kickstarter style fundraisers are explicitly illegal, so is this. Basically any collection of money requires a special permit that is only handed to certain charitable causes etc. Otherwise it's paid work and has totally different rules governing it. In this case the person would have to prove that they're not involved with tip4commit. Quite likely the prosecutor would simply say that you're cheating a…

I don't think it would work out this way. Looking at tip4commit would make it quite clear that you don't have to be involved. And why would you have to prove that you are not involved instead of having the prosecutor prove the opposite? No not-guilty-until-proven in Finland?

Because they have been doing it before.

Recently an exhibition called "Beer and Whiskey expo" was under threat due to it's name. Mention of Whiskey can be said to be an advertisement of strong alcohol. So they changed the name and it become just the Beer expo. After that they were informed that they will be denied permits unless individual bloggers with no connection to them would also remove mentions of Whiskey in their posts about the expo.

In the end the individual bloggers removed the mentions to allow the exhibition to continue. Short description of what happened https://thriftyfinn.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/the-grand-whisk... for those who don't speak Finnish.

So yeah. Actions of individuals whom you have no connection with can count against you here. Especially if the regulators think that you might be benefiting of them in some way, thus basically trying to cheat the system.

Remember this. Not every country follows the "innocent until proven guilty" principle.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#137

Post by malloreon »

jnbiche wrote: post #119

These kinds of episodes are making me increasingly depressed. On one hand, I'm incredibly disappointed in the ethics and morality of some of the people who have latched on to Bitcoin. And sadly, I'd have to include tip4commit in that group, particularly since they are "opt-out" and yet have been spamming people after each commit [ubernostrum points out below that they aren't even "opt-out", since they're not honoring…

"scores of established corporations choosing to accept Bitcoin"

What percentage of these established corporations "accept" bitcoin through VC-funded startups (which are gambling on the possibility of rising bitcoin value), receiving dollars and never actually holding a bitcoin?

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#138

Post by jacques_chester »

aartur wrote: post #99
arsenische wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I said "returned to the project's balance" - I meant "returned to the funded project's balance" so that other contributors to that project could receive them. Sorry if sounds ambiguous, English is not my native language. E. g. if you donate to reward contributors of https://tip4commit.com/github/bitcoin/bitcoin and some contributor doesn't specify bitcoin address to claim tips within 30 days then his or her tips…

And what happens when a project's owner will never claim tips? Like if he declared he is not interested in using your site, but people will pay tips because they see the project's name?

It's been a long time since I was a law student. However, as I recall the rules of trusts in common law countries (assuming this thing is covered by those rules):

1. If you take a donation from A on behalf of B, you are now a trustee. That means you're bound by fiduciary duty, which is a very strict standard of behaviour[1].

2. If you can't find B, or if B refuses to accept the donation, you must return it to A. It cannot be repurposed for other beneficiaries.

3. If you repurpose the funds for yourself, you have breached fiduciary duty and are legally in deep, deep shit.

The exceptions are, of course, if you explicitly formed a trust with explicit terms allowing you to select other beneficiaries.

Of course, the laws vary according to jurisdiction. Trusts caselaw has evolved slightly differently in different common law countries. And legislatures are typically suspicious of trusts because they get used a lot to reduce tax burdens, so there tends to be a lot of local tinkering with the trusts laws.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#139

Post by wyck »

brador wrote: post #30
ubernostrum wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (Django) already threatened that a while back. They still insist they will not remove projects or stop collecting donations on behalf of non-consenting projects. All they did was manually disable some of the spam coming toward our committers.

Assuming you had the muscle, what's the worst a dev could theoretically hit them with? Could they be succesfully sued? DMCA?

It depends on the country, in Canada you can certainly report them to the CRTC as breaking the law (CASL). http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/casl-lcap.htm

Emailing someone in Canada now requires consent (various legal ways) or close personal relationship. It doesn't cost anything to report them https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/rapidsccm/Default-Defaut.asp... . But if you really wanted to pursue them, you would have to hire a lawyer, a complaint doesn't have the same weight or speed of a legal filing.

This just goes to show you has clueless the developers are with regards to international policy and law.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#140

Post by JohnTHaller »

jnbiche wrote: post #119

These kinds of episodes are making me increasingly depressed. On one hand, I'm incredibly disappointed in the ethics and morality of some of the people who have latched on to Bitcoin. And sadly, I'd have to include tip4commit in that group, particularly since they are "opt-out" and yet have been spamming people after each commit [ubernostrum points out below that they aren't even "opt-out", since they're not honoring…

The only reason HNers are pulling out the DMCA is because another project is (unethically or not) using their names to raise funds in a way that they do not permit. That has nothing to do with bitcoin.

Like it or not, the pseudonymous (not anonymous) nature of bitcoin will always attract a high level of illegal and unethical activity. Many people will then use those activities, stories, and experiences to paint bitcoin as a whole. The same holds true for Tor, 4chan, reddit, the internet itself, etc.

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