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Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

nytimes.com

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Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#131

Post by BugBrother »

ggg999 wrote: post #126
BugBrother wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was propaganda from a karma 9 account. I'll touch some points but I think that there are too many fanatics on this subject, it doesn't work on HN. (I got a couple of comments first upvoted and then down voted a bunch of points, so I guess this will go the same way.) >>In Israel, only 7% of the land was owned by Jews when the state of Israel was created. More Jews were thrown out of the Muslim countries than Pale…

I don't see how you have countered anything that I have said. I think the actions of governments like Egypt's are horrible WRT the Palestinians too, but that was not the point of my post. I was responding to a racist anti-arab rant (that ended up being down-voted by the time I finished composing my response). Hasney Mubarak became an American/Israeli puppet. As for keeping the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Pales…

>>Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews

Organ harvesting was one doctor -- which took organs from Jews too (I think that is even against the religion). You again blame a whole country for an individuals action.

>>As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel.

- First you complain about Israel because of an individuals' action.

- Second, you shrug off state sanctioned racial hate propaganda, partly copied from the Nazis and partly religious?!

Talk about double standards... this literally gave me vertigo.

Enough.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#132

Post by tptacek »

fit2rule wrote: post #129
idlewords wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a television show.

More than half of American TV shows are produced by the intelligence agency. Hollywood has been a velvet glove for a long time ..

Didn't any of you wonder why season 4 of Community was so bad? Wake up, sheeple!

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#133

Post by dllthomas »

bmelton wrote: post #120
geographomics wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely one could just deny any such assertions on their pornographic habits (or other embarrassing information)? Anything that would be claimed as proof could just as well be a collection of manufactured lies rather than leaked truth.

Denying the existence of provable facts? I have a hard time imagining how that could be effective without a PR team and a compelling narrative to be spun.

What does "proof" of your visiting a porn site look like, when bad actors set out to discredit you? I weakly agree with your second sentence, but I am not sure I understand the first.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#134

Post by geographomics »

benologist wrote: post #116
geographomics wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely one could just deny any such assertions on their pornographic habits (or other embarrassing information)? Anything that would be claimed as proof could just as well be a collection of manufactured lies rather than leaked truth.

Accusations can last forever even if they're thoroughly debunked, and they can be dominant in large part thanks to SEO and the spread of info online rather than anything the victim can control. This is why the EU wants the "right to be forgotten" on Google etc - to let the innocent be innocent.

Exactly, the accusation is sufficient - no proof is required to discredit someone.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#135

Post by ggg999 »

BugBrother wrote: post #131
ggg999 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you have countered anything that I have said. I think the actions of governments like Egypt's are horrible WRT the Palestinians too, but that was not the point of my post. I was responding to a racist anti-arab rant (that ended up being down-voted by the time I finished composing my response). Hasney Mubarak became an American/Israeli puppet. As for keeping the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Pales…

>>Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews Organ harvesting was one doctor -- which took organs from Jews too (I think that is even against the religion). You again blame a whole country for an individuals action. >>As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. - First you complain about Israel because of an individuals' action. - Second, you shrug off state sanctione…

Interesting. The double standard I see here is yours. I had hoped I was speaking with a reasonable person (in spite of the silly ad hominem about low karma, new account; and now, this nonsense). This entire thread (all responses, including mine) should be down voted for going off the rails. To everyone else, I apologize for feeding the troll (my original response, not to bugbrother; those to bugbrother were just a futile attempt to inform an apologist for a criminal regime).

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#136

Post by bengrunfeld »

ggg999 wrote: post #135
BugBrother wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews Organ harvesting was one doctor -- which took organs from Jews too (I think that is even against the religion). You again blame a whole country for an individuals action. >>As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. - First you complain about Israel because of an individuals' action. - Second, you shrug off state sanctione…

Interesting. The double standard I see here is yours. I had hoped I was speaking with a reasonable person (in spite of the silly ad hominem about low karma, new account; and now, this nonsense). This entire thread (all responses, including mine) should be down voted for going off the rails. To everyone else, I apologize for feeding the troll (my original response, not to bugbrother; those to bugbrother were just a fu…

I was involved in the Israeli Security establishment for over 5 years. I never saw any ethnic cleansing, massacres, or any of the other horrid things you talk about. As a combat commander, I had to give 1hr lectures to my soldiers about ethical behavior before EVERY mission. It was crazy, and I thought it was over the top, but even during the intifada, we were held to a crazy moral standard as soldiers.

For example, the rules during my time stated that if an Arab throws a rock at you (big, heavy, can break your skull apart), you are not allowed to shoot. If they have a knife and are charging from a distance, you are still not allowed to shoot. If they have a molatov cocktail, but are at a distance where it can't hurt you, you are not allowed to shoot. If you shoot and kill in these situations, you will be tried before a military court for murder and jailed.

The Israel you talk about is an anti-semitic PR fantasy that holds no resemblance to the reality of what goes on there. Part of my job taking care of terrorists with blood on their hands that we'd arrested was to ensure they got hot bloody food while we took care of them.

Not exactly a world of massacres and ethnic cleansing. Sorry, your rant is just rhetoric.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#137

Post by bengrunfeld »

selimthegrim wrote: post #117
bengrunfeld wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've met one or two American Arab students, studying in nice universities, and that dictates the social norms that spread across the middle east?? Wow man, I want some of what you're smoking. Please, go and visit Yemen, visit Afghanistan, even visit Jordan for heaven's sake, and you'll find that the reality of the Middle East can't be understood from within a college cafe in upstate California. There are powerfu…

You know, dealing with people like they're out of a Leon Uris novel is a great way to make sure the status quo never changes.

Not to flame or anything, but that really doesn't make any sense.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#138

Post by cryoshon »

tedks wrote: post #65
sfk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_demonstrations_in_East_G...

On the eve of the second American invasion in Iraq, the world's largest nonviolent demonstration occurred (to date) in New York City protesting the war. The war went ahead as scheduled. Protest is totally irrelevant in the modern world. It is shuffled into free speech zones or tear gassed, LRAD'd, and pepper sprayed out of the way. "Less-lethal" armaments and massive police militarization means that there will never…

So then, what's the path out of this totalitarianism?

Or should we just leave?

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#139

Post by selimthegrim »

bengrunfeld wrote: post #137
selimthegrim wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, dealing with people like they're out of a Leon Uris novel is a great way to make sure the status quo never changes.

Not to flame or anything, but that really doesn't make any sense.

Anecdotal stories of Arab primitivism and lack of state/societal secularism doesn't mean progressive currents will never win out. I'm sure Europe in 1648 was depressing as fuck too.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#140

Post by BugBrother »

ggg999 wrote: post #135
BugBrother wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews Organ harvesting was one doctor -- which took organs from Jews too (I think that is even against the religion). You again blame a whole country for an individuals action. >>As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. - First you complain about Israel because of an individuals' action. - Second, you shrug off state sanctione…

Interesting. The double standard I see here is yours. I had hoped I was speaking with a reasonable person (in spite of the silly ad hominem about low karma, new account; and now, this nonsense). This entire thread (all responses, including mine) should be down voted for going off the rails. To everyone else, I apologize for feeding the troll (my original response, not to bugbrother; those to bugbrother were just a fu…

I showed by examples of your double standards that you are a lying hate propagandist, which have no problem even with teaching children racial hatred.

If you could have shown that was wrong, you would have. Instead you just classify me...

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