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What I use instead of Google services

gabrielweinberg.com

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Re: What I use instead of Google services

#131

Post by jastanton »

dskhatri wrote: post #99
astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

His point is more about not putting all your eggs in one basket; you certainly don't tell your barista about an upcoming physician's appointment, or that you are in the market for a house. Your barista is also disconnected from parties who may leverage the information you provide him/her. Similarly, you don't tell your broker that you prefer Ethiopian coffee. Google offers so many services that it has a much broader…

Actually it's more like going to your Dr appt and realizing they have a barista onsite... of course you're not going to tell the barista why you're going to the Dr, and the barista isn't going to know your full medical history, there is a pretty large separation of concerns there. Same applies to big companies. There are really big barriers up between services like there are between the Dr and the on site barista.

To further this analogy, what if you went to the onsite barista and when you ordered your coffee the barista told you that you're allergic to one of the seasonings. That's helpful and relevant and I think this is where most people start panicking but if the Dr has a Lot of accountability which is what the top comment is suggesting is the main concern, then you will know that the Dr isn't sharing full medical history but rather just what is relevant, your allergies. This is convenient, and in my imaginary scenario just saved the person from a lot of trouble. Also in this imaginary scenario the patient opted-into this sharing of knowledge.

I know this may not be a popular opinion, please share why instead of down voting me. I'm eager to learn and a down vote won't help me :P

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#132

Post by mirkules »

imgabe wrote: post #123
mirkules wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without intending to invoke Godwin's Law, I think what happened in WWII is a good lesson in dangers of overexposing your private life. Before WWII, Germany used "tax deductions" to entice people to reveal their religion to the government. Data which was later used to identify Jews during wartime. Nobody is saying you need to unplug your machine from the internet, but just that because something doesn't impact you tod…

The problem in WWII was not that the government had a list of who all the Jews were. The problem was that there was a government that wanted to kill all the Jews . If the latter is true, they'll find out the information they want one way or another. Hiding a list does not solve the problem, which is that you have elected genocidal maniacs to your government.

Your line of thinking hinges on an optimistic view: "As long as X doesn't happen, we're fine". But what will you do when X does happen? You'll be completely unprepared for it.

I prefer to take the "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" approach: if something bad were to happen, I would have a better chance of not being impacted.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#133

Post by fidotron »

boling11 wrote: post #122
astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

Advocating for greater accountability across the board sounds great in principle, but what does that even mean? Are we to hold Google, accountable for monetizing the data they collect on us? That's the social contract you engage in with Google, when you use their services. Looking at the underlying business model is more effective. I am confident that DDG is going to respect my privacy, because that's what their whol…

The problem with Google's methodology is destroying the market for others through "free" alternatives. When the Chinese do this it's called product dumping, and rightly criticized.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#135

Post by NicoJuicy »

dombili wrote: post #102
Oletros wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? Both of them track data, both of them do target ads. What is the real difference? One is better at doing it than the other?

I just told you the difference. What is it that you don't understand? Google's whole business revolves around showing you targeted ads. Apple's business is to sell you iDevices. Apple will not target you to the point where it's invasive and creepy (although I'd argue even the smallest amount of tracking is invasive, but I've been trying to look at this from Gabriel Weinberg's point of view) because Apple can not do a…

The point is, Apple does track you AND charges a premium. Google doesn't do both.

If you look at EFFF, Google has had your back longer with lobbywork before the EFF report came out ( https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013 ) as soon as that got popular last year, all of them upgraded their lobbywork (Apple)

Yes, now they all have 5 stars, but the EFF report first came out in 2011 without them knowing ( https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2011 )... But there was a lot of hype about it last year, so they had to improve their "score-card".

It sure took Apple long enough though :)

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#136

Post by chestnut-tree »

astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

"It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori."

Tracking is bad when you know little to nothing about what is being is tracked about you and how that information is used. While you might get targeted or personalised results as a result of tracking, that is likely just a small outcome of the data collected about you. Who knows what else is being analysed or number-crunched about your online behaviour? If you read Google's privacy policy, the most notable aspect is how little it tells you. Nothing about how your data is aggregated, who sees your data, how long that data is kept for, whether it's anonymised. Is the data collected to "protect Google and our users" (their words) used solely for that purpose? (For example, providing your date-of-birth for age verification and your mobile number for two-factor authentication.) Or is this information also used for tracking and profile-building? These are all reasonable questions to ask any company that tracks you online or asks for your personal information. But Google aren't giving answers. And Google arguably tracks online behaviour more than anyone else.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#137

Post by imgabe »

mirkules wrote: post #132
imgabe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in WWII was not that the government had a list of who all the Jews were. The problem was that there was a government that wanted to kill all the Jews . If the latter is true, they'll find out the information they want one way or another. Hiding a list does not solve the problem, which is that you have elected genocidal maniacs to your government.

Your line of thinking hinges on an optimistic view: "As long as X doesn't happen, we're fine". But what will you do when X does happen? You'll be completely unprepared for it. I prefer to take the "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" approach: if something bad were to happen, I would have a better chance of not being impacted.

No, my line of thinking is more like "If X happens, we're fucked regardless of whether we have privacy or not, so we need to focus on not letting X happen"

If an insane genocidal dictatorship comes to power, you will be impacted, unless you're on the side of the dictators.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#138

Post by mkal_tsr »

astrocat wrote: post #120
Spearchucker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking is an issue in that your interests, preferences, and proclivities are being used to make others richer. Hey if that's ok with you then I'm cool with that. I'm not cool with me doing that. I run ad blockers. If you make a living from ads then offer me a paid-for alternative. I avoid everything Google. I use a Windows Phone without a Microsoft account. If an app wants access to my contacts it doesn't get insta…

> your interests, preferences, and proclivities are being used to make others richer. Your logic here villainizes a behavior simply because it benefits someone else. Let's say that every day you stop at Starbucks and order a cappuccino. The people who work at there recognize that you always show up at 8:10am and order the same thing so they begin to make sure it is ready for you every day so you don't have to wait. D…

It sounds like people are cross-discussing what they're really trying to get at the heart of,

Tracking is a tool.

It can be used for good and for bad. It has been used for good or bad. A healthy debate about the pros and cons and discussing choices one has with their tools/tech is vital to this.

Tracking is an aspect of privacy, but it is not the entirety of it.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#139

Post by alpatters »

> "Practically, switching away from as many Google services as possible will help alleviate the most obvious issues like most of your personal data being in the hands of one company and the related issue of ads following you around the Internet."

Ads that follow you has absolutely nothing to do with Google services. These are retargeting companies using their cookies to track you. They use ad exchanges, so even that is not principally Google.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#140

Post by vram1994 »

astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

The issue here is information monopoly. If one provider controls every bit of information about you than it eventually leads to a master/puppet scenario.

With your permission, you give us more information about you, about your friends, and we can improve the quality of our searches. We don’t need you to type at all. We know where you are. We know where you’ve been. We can more or less know what you’re thinking about - Eric Schmidt, Executive Chairman of Google.

That's the issue here.

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