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A Reminder To Investors

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: A Reminder To Investors

#131

Post by smacktoward »

walshemj wrote: post #54
untog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demo Day is a business context. If you are an investor talking to the founder of a YC startup, it's a business conversation. There shouldn't be any hint of romance, dates, flirting. Explicit enough for you?

Then say all and not inappropriate - presumably you come down with a fit of vapours when NCIS is on and Toy and Ziva flirt.

Tony and Ziva are colleagues, which makes their relationship different in power terms from a supervisor-supervised relationship.

For contrast, look at Gibbs and Abby, who do have a supervisor-supervised relationship with the same power dynamics as that between investors and entrepreneurs. In their case, the show goes out of its way to make sure everyone understands that their relationship, while affectionate, is neither romantic nor sexual.

Why? Because it would be super creepy if Gibbs, who is both Abby's boss and much older than her, suddenly made a pass at her out of nowhere.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#133

Post by StandardFuture »

tptacek wrote: post #97
angersock wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's actually explore the idea a bit, and you'll see that it actually is not completely worth dismissing outright. One of the big problems with unwanted romantic advances is that they can come unexpectedly: you're there to do a deal, and the other person is trying to find a way of getting in your pants; you give out your number for business, other person calls you with non-business propositions. It's stressful a…

I speak I think for many people on HN when I say that at least on this thread, in this context, in this discussion, in these circumstances, this idea should be dismissed out of hand. Let's stipulate you just want to have an interesting intellectual conversation. Can we have it some other time?

>Can we have it some other time?

No, this 'intellectual conversation' should never happen. The people involved in any sort of conversation of this type(as I am sure many have happened in the past) will only dull their sympathy for people who do have to struggle/contend with this happening to them. It's morally disgusting and I could care less about your definition of 'morality'.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#134

Post by oddevan »

highCs wrote: post #90
bdcravens wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional athletes and drug use. Police officers and violence. Clergy and child sexual abuse. As a percentage, those situations are extreme minorities, but it's important to aggressively address serious issues that exist in an industry, and not shy away for fear of generalizing.

Interesting point. But if I rephrase things a little bit, I don't feel it is becoming better: "A reminder to Clergy people: no sexual abuse on children are permitted." I think if I was a member of that profession, I would feel insulted. EDIT: rerephrased according to comment (that may invalidate the commentors' opinions).

If it was anything other than a blanket "don't do this," maybe. It's also like a crowd of new software engineers being told on day one, "By the way, you probably know this, but don't hack the payroll server to boost your paycheck." It's something the average person would never seriously consider, but in the event someone is boneheaded enough to actually do it, it negates the "I didn't know I couldn't" excuse. You can feel insulted if you want, but it's not a message _personally directed at you_, it's a general warning that, because of a few extreme incidents, needs to be explicitly stated out loud.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#135

Post by axlprose »

rayiner wrote: post #114
yummyfajitas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a translation of Altman's message from powertalk into english: "Dear feminists and rabble rousers, we recognize your power. We are on your team. We will genuflect in the direction of those things you consider holy. Please don't target us." (For those unfamiliar with the term, "powertalk" is the in-group language of powerful people.) http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i... YC is attempt…

Saying that feminists are in a position of power is utterly ridiculous.

It's really not. Feminist ideology has permeated many levels of public institutions today -- not all, of course, but quite a few. There's a reason it's seen as the 'correct'/default viewpoint to take today; if that weren't the case, then it'd be less surprising when someone declares themselves not a feminist. There might be a long road yet ahead for feminists, but I don't think it's fair to diminish their vast and obvious accomplishments thus far; doing that just feeds into the victimization cycle that's endemic in the radical subsets of it.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#136

Post by StandardFuture »

sebkomianos wrote: post #45

In which world, universe, philosophy, call-it-however-you-want, is "romantic behaviour" more sexist than holding a "FEMALE Founders Conference"?

While I agree with you that an "All-One-Sex Conference" is still sexist, I am still downvoting you for showing a lack of sympathy for the people affected by the topic at hand. You'll get over it.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#137

Post by dsg42 »

dsirijus wrote: post #129

Not insignificant, but major amount of relationships and subsequent marriages have sprung from flirts and advances at work, obviously frequently including power-disbalanced positions. [1] While this particular (and pretty stringent at that) declaration of code of conduct is probably conducive to business and PR goals of YC, I'm far from convinced it will be advancing health of relationships between individuals concer…

What the fuck kind of response is this? Attitudes like this are the reason harassment is a problem in the tech industry. Yes, it happens. Occasionally. But not in a situation with these kinds of power dynamics. It is never appropriate to flirt with someone who is trying to engage in a business transaction with you. No exceptions.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#138

Post by bdcravens »

sebkomianos wrote: post #69
bdcravens wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking pure sexism here, we're talking about a possible manipulation and abuse of relationship.

Abuse of relationship is abuse of relationship, fullstop. It doesn't need to be "of the sexism kind" to be reprehensible.

Exactly. Sexism is tangential here; abuse of power is front and center. It's like comparing cops beating black suspects with NAACP membership.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#139

Post by rayiner »

axlprose wrote: post #135
rayiner wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that feminists are in a position of power is utterly ridiculous.

It's really not. Feminist ideology has permeated many levels of public institutions today -- not all, of course, but quite a few. There's a reason it's seen as the 'correct'/default viewpoint to take today; if that weren't the case, then it'd be less surprising when someone declares themselves not a feminist. There might be a long road yet ahead for feminists, but I don't think it's fair to diminish their vast and ob…

It's something that everyone knows to pay lip service to, in the same way that everyone pays lip service to being "green." But are you going to say with a straight face that environmentalists are in a position of power?

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#140

Post by bdcravens »

dsirijus wrote: post #129

Not insignificant, but major amount of relationships and subsequent marriages have sprung from flirts and advances at work, obviously frequently including power-disbalanced positions. [1] While this particular (and pretty stringent at that) declaration of code of conduct is probably conducive to business and PR goals of YC, I'm far from convinced it will be advancing health of relationships between individuals concer…

Yes, and some of our most brilliant minds probably had ancestry that was the product of forced rape. End still doesn't justify the means.
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