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A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

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Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#131

Post by thix0tr0pic »

cphuntington97 wrote: post #78

>The constant screaming and the running, along with chronic exhaustion, produce in him a state of low-level panic, which is also a state of acute focus. It is as if his thinking mind, his doubting and critical and interpreting mind, had shut down and been replaced by a simpler mechanism that serves the body. This is extreme, however, it strikes me as a mild version of operating a steam locomotive. While undertaking t…

Also known as Flow - the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#132

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

milesf wrote: post #120
krapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing…

Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? ( http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus ) Se…

That's one of the main problems with your whole argument. "How many folk tales do you know...". Just because you only know one, doesn't mean there is only one. You believe the one you are told, as do the other people else where in the world and in time.

The Gregorian calendar does attempt to count the number of years since Jesus.

The Bahá'í calendar counts since Báb had his first religious experience [0]

The Bengali calendar counts (possibly) since the reign of King of Gour, Shashanka [1]

The Buddhist calendar counts since Buddha attained parinibbāna [2]

The Hindu calendar Kali Yuga counts since Krishna left Earth to return to his abode [3]

I'm sure there are more, I only looked at a few. Look how many calendars there are that are in use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_calendars

Also, I don't think explaining anything can make a belief system collapse.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_timeline [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_calendar [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_calendar [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#133

Post by lloeki »

thix0tr0pic wrote: post #131
cphuntington97 wrote: post #78

>The constant screaming and the running, along with chronic exhaustion, produce in him a state of low-level panic, which is also a state of acute focus. It is as if his thinking mind, his doubting and critical and interpreting mind, had shut down and been replaced by a simpler mechanism that serves the body. This is extreme, however, it strikes me as a mild version of operating a steam locomotive. While undertaking t…

Also known as Flow - the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

Also known as rapture†[0] or ecstasy[1]. See the related altered states of consciousness[2]. Rands and Joel Spolsky call it "the Zone".

† which is incidentally the title of my endlessly upcoming blog (no relation to christianity nor Bioshock)

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture_(Buddhism)

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_(emotion)

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_state_of_consciousness

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#134

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Dewie wrote: post #105
jobu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicidal people by definition have a low regard for their own lives, and are often in search of purpose or meaning. Enlisting to fight a war might be a solution to both. (I'm not an expert though, and the only evidence I have for this theory is knowing two fairly depressed people that enlisted during the recent Iraq war.)

They found purpose in enlisting for/during the Iraq war ? Well, whatever works for them, I guess.

Well yeah, makes sense doesn't it? From unemployed and sitting alone at home all day to someone part of a greater thing with both friends / camerades, a strict social structure, strict day-to-day routine, physical exertion, etcetera.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#135

Post by lloeki »

krapp wrote: post #106
superuser2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly,…

When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing…

Pascal's wager[0]: God† may or may not exist, therefore I might as well believe since I have everything to gain if I was correct and nothing to lose if I wasn't. (argument involves finite vs infinite gains/losses, see Wikipedia)

My personal wager: God† may or may not exist, but if he doesn't I'd sure as hell better make the best out of this life because there won't be another one, otherwise I might as well not exist.

† or whatever

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#136

Post by satori99 »

themodelplumber wrote: post #33

I used to live near the Tojimbo cliffs and have been thinking about the place (and what happens there) on and off since my first visit. I also really liked this NYT article, about a retired cop who made it his mission to stop suicide attempts at the cliffs. 222 lives had been saved as of late 2009. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/world/asia/18japan.html?_r...

A similar story from Sydney ...

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/death-of-the-angel-of-the-gap-the-...

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#137

Post by Dewie »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #134
Dewie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They found purpose in enlisting for/during the Iraq war ? Well, whatever works for them, I guess.

Well yeah, makes sense doesn't it? From unemployed and sitting alone at home all day to someone part of a greater thing with both friends / camerades, a strict social structure, strict day-to-day routine, physical exertion, etcetera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-JFPePh6yM#t=15m05s

Like I said; if he thinks it's part of some greater thing, who cares!

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#138

Post by thisjepisje »

arh68 wrote: post #112
audiodude wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a moderately fun video game?

While lacking the romantic appeal of a steam locomotive, Pax Reactor [1] is basically a 1375 MW boiler. Pretty fun until everything hits the fan. [1] http://henrik.zsolt-frei.net/Fun/Software/pax.html

Thanks for that, it's an awesome sim.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#139

Post by ionised »

cristianpascu wrote: post #125
superuser2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly,…

Humans have many beliefs. Facts are not beliefs. Beliefs are not facts. The nature of life after death, if there is one, is a fact. Our multitude of beliefs about it do not change there being or not life our death, just as our very existence is not a matter of belief. We are or we're not. Just because we have epistemic limitations, that doesn't mean that the ontology of life, before and after death, is influenced by…

> I hope you'd agree with me when I say that love is more natural to human beings than fear.

I wouldn't agree with that. Fear is one of the most basic instincts. A core emotion to most species along with joy, sadness, anxiety and anger.

Love, while most are certainly capable of it, isn't among those core emotions.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#140

Post by krapp »

milesf wrote: post #120
krapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing…

Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? ( http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus ) Se…

I don't want to pile on, but you're failing to see the implicit cultural bias in your argument. Primarily, that calendar was created and implemented by the Church, at a time when that Church dominated political and cultural life in the Western world. Of course they decided to divide the calendar there, they accepted Christianity as a first principle.

>How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses?

All of them, if you don't believe in the existence of the supernatural. But this argument, in itself, reveals another fallacy, as it assumes the narrative consistency or cultural relevance of a religion has any bearing on its actual truth. Reality doesn't have to be logically consistent nor does it have to follow a narrative path - one only has to look at scientific progress over the last century to see that. And the argument that Christianity must be true because so many people believe in it is undermined by the fact that more people have consistently believed otherwise over time.

>Seems to me there might be more to the story than just a random dart throw at a wall of choices.

Thing is, that's what they all say.

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