I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own • Hacker News Board

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#131

Post by snowwrestler » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 8:48 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #114

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that it is their first degree, I made the possible inaccurate assumption that this person was just getting out of the US equivalent of high school. My thoughts at that age were pretty jumbled too. Many of my peers didn't really have any idea why they were in college until maybe their third year. It wasn't until they had the benefit of having gone through such a program and looked back on it to appreciate…

"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..." I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom. But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives. What if college isn't a demonstration of tenaci…

If your alternate conception of college were true, then we would expect to find a strongly negative correlation between college degrees and people who are good citizens or good humans. We don't see that at all, so we can conclude that there is more to going to college than you propose.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#132

Post by snowwrestler » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 8:55 PM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #44

voidlogic wrote: post #41

>>I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree That is very true for some degrees, but I laugh when potential C-S students say this. My first year of undergrad at well performing state university, I took loans and worked at the schools IT support center, 7.50/hr. The following summer I worked as a "Application Development Intern" and made $10/hr. For the following three years I worked part-time at a local software consulting f…

eh, not everyone will be successful, even with a CS degree. I know programs at many schools are hyper competitive, so that will weed out the ones that can't hack it, but College is expensive. That said, I liked the line from Rich Dad, Poor Dad that explained the difference between thinking "I can't afford it." and "How can I afford it?" The former just shuts off your thinking and accepts a situation. Granted the OP i…

I'd argue that a person who is not going to be successful with a CS degree is probably also not going to be successful at starting a brand new accreditation system for higher education.

Getting a programming job requires some hustle. Establishing a new foothold in the hyper-comeptitive landscape of high ed probably requires a whole lot more hustle.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#133

Post by snowwrestler » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 9:06 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #115

araes wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, no issue with the red herring of accountant pay rates, just with the number of them there are. The ones I have real issues with pay for are the mucky mucks near the top [1], the increasing numbers of them there are [2], and the effect they have on tuition costs [3]. On reform, I'd say something similar to the IRS approach on taxes. Spend effort where there's a return on investment. IE, they're not going to audit…

I'm sorry about how lengthy this is, really I am. Not sure how accountant pay rates are a red herring. You stated that they make 6, 7 and 8 figures; that's not accurate, I don't have hard statistics to back it up, but it just can't be. Also, the average institution (for my state) employs 1 staff accountant for every 500-600 students physically on campus, or every 800(ish) students counting on-line and commuter averag…

> 50 people buying $20 meals without reason are.

If you take out "without reason," then 50 people buying $20 meals is not actually a problem.

If a person travels for 3 days and claims 3 dinners at $20 each, there is an obvious reason to claim them, and no reason to audit, even if a receipt is missing. In my experience, this is how personal expenses at corporations work, which by the way are also subject to significant audit and tax reporting requirements.

> Administration costs are going up, correct. So are the costs of every other damned thing.

This is not actually true; administration costs in academia are going up much faster than almost any other cost in the U.S.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#134

Post by chasing » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 9:07 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #114

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that it is their first degree, I made the possible inaccurate assumption that this person was just getting out of the US equivalent of high school. My thoughts at that age were pretty jumbled too. Many of my peers didn't really have any idea why they were in college until maybe their third year. It wasn't until they had the benefit of having gone through such a program and looked back on it to appreciate…

"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..." I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom. But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives. What if college isn't a demonstration of tenaci…

> For instance, I know a lot of people with advanced degrees, and they generally fit into 3 buckets: 1) people who were expected to get an advanced degree because their parents had them, 2) people who enjoy playing games and winning external validation, 3) people who have an innate obsession with some aspect of knowledge. (BTW - I think the true scholars are category 3.)

This is reductionist nonsense. Please. People get advanced degrees for a million reasons.

> What if people who win at education are just people who are naturally competitive, like being bounded by rules, are good at min-max game play, and who ultimately are driven by praise?

You can replace "education" with damned near anything in this sentence. "Business." "Basketball." "Super Smash Brothers Brawl." "Terrorism." Which is a sign that it's an asinine point.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#135

Post by snowwrestler » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 9:11 PM UTC

araftery wrote: post #15

A new form accreditation is really what's holding back a huge change in higher education. MOOCs right now, at most, can replace only traditional professional development classes. They're still not a drop-in replacement for college degrees. That's because of accreditation. Bachelors degrees are valuable, in large part, because they're a common currency: employers know when they see a potential hire has bachelor's degr…

This might be heresy here on HN, but I think that there is more than accreditation paperwork at play here. I think it remains to be proven whether a MOOC actually does deliver an education that is on par with what you would get from attending a 4-year CS degree program at a college or university.

MOOCs are new and exciting, but they're also new and unproven. Accredited bachelor degrees are valued because they have a long history of delivering value. MOOCs do not.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#136

Post by ap22213 » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 9:27 PM UTC

chasing wrote: post #134

ap22213 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..." I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom. But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives. What if college isn't a demonstration of tenaci…

> For instance, I know a lot of people with advanced degrees, and they generally fit into 3 buckets: 1) people who were expected to get an advanced degree because their parents had them, 2) people who enjoy playing games and winning external validation, 3) people who have an innate obsession with some aspect of knowledge. (BTW - I think the true scholars are category 3.) This is reductionist nonsense. Please. People…

I'm sorry that someone stating their thoughts can so easily unleash your spite.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#137

Post by ap22213 » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 9:28 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #131

ap22213 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..." I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom. But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives. What if college isn't a demonstration of tenaci…

If your alternate conception of college were true, then we would expect to find a strongly negative correlation between college degrees and people who are good citizens or good humans. We don't see that at all, so we can conclude that there is more to going to college than you propose.

I'd predict that there would be no correlation, at all.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#138

Post by chasing » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 10:16 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #136

chasing wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance, I know a lot of people with advanced degrees, and they generally fit into 3 buckets: 1) people who were expected to get an advanced degree because their parents had them, 2) people who enjoy playing games and winning external validation, 3) people who have an innate obsession with some aspect of knowledge. (BTW - I think the true scholars are category 3.) This is reductionist nonsense. Please. People…

I'm sorry that someone stating their thoughts can so easily unleash your spite.

No spite! I harbor no ill will. I just thought they weren't very good points. And I tried to explain why.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#139

Post by crazypyro » Wed, Jun 25, 2014, 12:09 AM UTC

will_work4tears wrote: post #119

crazypyro wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, which small town in Missouri did you go to school?

"Small" being relative, of course, it was Columbia, MO. I graduated from the University of Missouri.

Oh okay, I go to a school just south in an miniscule town by your standards then. Haha.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#140

Post by will_work4tears » Wed, Jun 25, 2014, 12:22 AM UTC

crazypyro wrote: post #139

will_work4tears wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Small" being relative, of course, it was Columbia, MO. I graduated from the University of Missouri.

Oh okay, I go to a school just south in an miniscule town by your standards then. Haha.

How far just south? Rolla, or Jefferson City? My wife is from Rolla, and I know several people that went there. I don't know anybody that went to Lincoln though.