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iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

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Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#131

Post by User9812 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #109
_greim_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think on the general principle of privacy. But also, the idea that the more trackable you are, the more easily manipulated you are by marketers and advertisers. Free markets work better the more consumers are rational. Giving marketers deep psychological and behavioral insight increasingly enables them to circumvent rationality and "hack" consumers in various ways.

There's a flip side to this. Being less trackable means that any passive advertising or active marketing you do see is less tailored to your situation and needs. When I walk around I see many billboards advertising products for which I have no use (e.g. female hair care products). If tracking technology could replace those with things I actually might buy (even if male hair care products) then I would be a touch happ…

Do you know what companies never do? They never ask.

I see dating ads, cars advertisements, feminine healthcare products, insurance ads, etc. What do I want to see? Travel accessories, computers, hardware, games, tech gadgets, etc. I never see these ads.

Why doesn't Google say, hey, you're going to see Adsense all over the internet, advertisements before videos on YouTube, etc. Would you like to select a few categories so that time is spent seeing some cool products that are relevant to you?

I've been on the internet for 15+ years, and no one stopped to ask just once. I could select categories in about 20 seconds that would be more accurate than all this data collection and profiling that happens every day.

Instead, I just block ads, and install ad block on every computer I come across. I make my living off ad revenue, but ads are absolutely awful, irrelevant and too often malicious. If they gave me the option to select some categories in the past, I probably would have discovered some decent products to buy, and keep them turned on. But nope, I can't recall clicking an ad in the past decade.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#132

Post by btgeekboy »

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

Perhaps it's not quite that bad. Places like Home Depot use AT&T, so the AP is called attwifi. If you've ever used the wireless at a Starbucks or McDonald's, you've likely already approved your phone to connect to attwifi.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#133

Post by esbranson »

I've asked the HostAP mailing list about this as a feature request for wpa_supplicant.[1] From what Jouni Malinen says, it should be relatively straightforward.[2] (I think. I used a poor choice of words in my request.)

BTW AFAIK Android uses hostapd/wpa_supplicant.

Its beyond by technical abilities, but hopefully someone submits some patches. (Or Jouni graciously does the deed. Because he is awesome.) HINT HINT WINK WINK.

[1] http://lists.shmoo.com/pipermail/hostap/2014-June/030405.htm...

[2] http://lists.shmoo.com/pipermail/hostap/2014-June/030406.htm...

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#134

Post by userbinator »

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

It's disturbingly creepy to think that stores would even think of doing this, but on the other hand it's also an indication of how clueless the general population is about the amount of identifiable data they're unconsciously "leaking" through personal, (nearly) always-on devices. My laptop is setup with a random MAC precisely to prevent this sort of tracking.

Interestingly, the unbranded Android phones I have (one looks very much like an iPhone, ironically enough) all came with this "feature" of a random MAC every time the WiFi is turned on/off, although that was more likely the manufacturer not bothering to give each one a unique MAC.

All the more reason to keep the WiFi turned off unless you're actually using it, and this might be a bit on the paranoid side, but I do the same for the cell radio (airplane mode) - it's on only when I'm expecting a call or making one.

At the other end of the scale, this tracking via MAC almost invites making them think several million customers have suddenly entered the store...

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#135

Post by kyboren »

tombrossman wrote: post #35
captn3m0 wrote: post #26

Is there something like this available for Linux desktops?

There is a package called macchanger which is said to have the ability to spoof a random MAC address at each reboot. I have a new laptop with Ubuntu 14.04 freshly installed and I can't get it to work though. It's not a high priority but I would like to have this working soon. I used to do this about ten years ago on a laptop running XP and whatever program I was using worked flawlessly. I'm thinking it should be even…

IME the most reliable way to do this is with a udev rule.

Here's my setup (Fedora, so YMMV). /etc/udev/rules.d/51-macchanger.sh:

    SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="iwlwifi", RUN+="/usr/local/bin/change-mac.sh wlp0s1"
/usr/local/bin/change-mac.sh:

    #!/bin/bash
    (
        if [ "$#" != "1" ] 
        then
            echo "mac changer script must be given iface name as argument: $@"
            echo "Using default of wlp0s1 instead." 
            iface="wlp0s1"
        else
            iface=$1
        fi

        /usr/sbin/ifconfig $iface down
        /bin/macchanger -r -b $iface #change to any random MAC address
        /usr/sbin/ifconfig $iface up
    ) >/var/log/change-mac
Note that you would need to specify the correct interface name in the udev rule (or figure out a way to get it dynamically--I never bothered). This also only works for Intel WiFi cards that use the iwlwifi driver; other cards with different drivers need their udev rule changed appropriately.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#136

Post by fpgeek »

craigyk wrote: post #50
ams6110 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do this at home because it resolves the problem of a duplicate IP addresses on the network caused by a device assuming it still has the same IP address (Apple devices seems to do this in particular) while meanwhile another one has taken it.

What? IME Apple devices are extremely polite about refusing/deactivating IP addresses that are already in use.

You may have been lucky, but I'd suggest looking at http://cafbit.com/entry/rapid_dhcp_or_how_do

There's been plenty of debate about whether this rapid DHCP behavior is desirable (e.g. Is the improvement in user experience worth the potential for conflicts and/or other issues on networks not expecting this?), but, either way, I don't see how that behavior can be fairly characterized as polite.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#137

Post by rsynnott »

qq66 wrote: post #2

This is Apple forcing the in-store analytics companies like Euclid to use iBeacon rather than WiFi. With the market share numbers the way they are, though, for all but the highest-end stores what Android does matters more.

Using iBeacon wouldn't really be a solution for this, unless the store could depend on a significant proportion of users both installing their app and clicking the "yes, you can talk to iBeacons" option when it first runs. For most stores this won't be the case.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#138

Post by tlrobinson »

pmorici wrote: post #7
brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

What stops them from switching to tracking via the hardware address of the cellular radio?

Probably the fact that IMSI-catchers are illegal.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#139

Post by rsynnott »

jonemo wrote: post #112

I don't know if anyone does that, but if you are making your access point only discoverable to known devices (i.e. known MAC addresses) then this would be a problem, right?

I think that's rare enough now that strong encryption is readily available for wireless, but yes, it would be a problem.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#140

Post by rsynnott »

ams6110 wrote: post #104
craigyk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? IME Apple devices are extremely polite about refusing/deactivating IP addresses that are already in use.

My experience is I get home, open my laptop, and it seems to by default assume it has the same IP as last time it was on my home network. Meanwhile my kid's 2DS game is using that IP, and I have a few minutes of chaos. I just assign fixed IPs to all the regularly connected devices and I don't encounter that.

Are you sure this isn't a router problem? A number of routers have an issue where they occasionally drop their table of DHCP allocations and just start again; this mostly only manifests when a new device connects.
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