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A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

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Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#131

Post by zokier »

DanBC wrote: post #127
Pitarou wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, the secret to having a viable sealed terrarium is in the compost. Get the right compost, with the right population of bacteria, and the whole thing will run forever.

I am interested in the idea of synthetic soils. Arriving on Mars and creating the right mix of sand, silt, and clay is easy enough. But it's the organic matter and biomass that makes soil what it is. Research on this might also have impacts on some parts of developing world where soil quity can be very poor. (Although that's often because anything that could go into the ground to improve soil has other uses).

One idea I've toyed with is building a "terrarium" (marsium?) with Mars imitation soil and atmosphere, and attempt to bootstrap some life in there.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#132

Post by ZenPro »

FatalLogic wrote: post #107
mynameishere wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really hate the daily mail, don't they? It's a tabloid, but realistically you should be skeptical about everything the press puts out. However, when it's a plant in a jar, being skeptical is really just being a crank. It's a plant in a jar. Who cares? Besides, just because more credible papers mention the guy doesn't change the fact that you have to take him for his word. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/…

The Daily Mail is especially hated because it's a tabloid hiding under a veneer of respectability. It has a long history of pandering 'science' stories. This story for example. Don't you wonder how the interior of the glass has stayed so spotless for 40 years? It has to be cleaned, but they don't explain how. Maybe it's some kind of magnetic cleaner, or maybe he's simply opening the bottle up to clean it. It's an obv…

Cleaned from what exactly?

Post science not speculation.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#133

Post by omilu »

Most aquarium plants grow excellent in this way, better than when they are submerged in an aquarium. Aquarium plants have two distinct forms, submerged or emerged, and the foilage can look completely different. The emerged form does better, since it doesn't need to compete with algae and co2 is more available. To grow your own plants, fill a pickle jar with damp miracle grow organic potting soil, and plant what ever aquarium plants you can get your hand on, seal the jar, than enjoy.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#134

Post by tachyonbeam »

Pitarou wrote: post #122
nmjohn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the bacterial flora present in the container. Bacteria are incredibly diverse, and just as one decomposer may be a methanogen [1], a different species of bacteria present may be a methanotroph [2]. So given the right bacterial "mixture," a self-sustaining CH4 cycle is not unreasonable. Additionally, CO is a metabolite for some methanogenic bacteria, specifically in production of acetyl CoA [3]. M…

In other words, the secret to having a viable sealed terrarium is in the compost. Get the right compost, with the right population of bacteria, and the whole thing will run forever.

I would imagine that some amount of adaptation will happen automatically. You have many kinds of bacteria in your compost, and the proportions will automatically adjust after the sealed ecosystem has been running for a while. Some strains might completely die off if they can't get the chemicals they need.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#135

Post by radio4fan »

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #52
mml wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have one. The shrimp were alive for about 2 years. Now there are other organisms... I think these are more about the incredible toughness of the shrimp involved. Their native habitat consists of rainwater puddles held in volcanic rock, so the shrimposphere is probably fairly luxurious.

> I think these are more about the incredible toughness of the shrimp involved. Pretty much; this guy[1] claims that basically, the shrimp slowly starve over the course of a couple years, shrinking after each molt. [1]: http://www.petshrimp.com/opaeinfo.php

I'd have to doubt his claim, given this comment which shows they must be breeding:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7858130

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#137

Post by qq66 »

cornellwright wrote: post #23
prawks wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EcoSpheres have an average life expectancy of two years. Very interesting, I had thought they were sustainable for much longer than that. I suppose even the most tightly controlled starting conditions will lead to unpredictable results when you have organisms reproducing.

I have an Ecosphere that's around 18 years old. There are still a couple shrimp (well I'm guessing offspring of the originals) alive. It's pretty cool.

That's really amazing. Has it stayed relatively undisturbed? Where is it relative to light?

Your shrimp are new shrimp made out of the same molecules as their ancestor shrimp.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#138

Post by FatalLogic »

ZenPro wrote: post #132
FatalLogic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Daily Mail is especially hated because it's a tabloid hiding under a veneer of respectability. It has a long history of pandering 'science' stories. This story for example. Don't you wonder how the interior of the glass has stayed so spotless for 40 years? It has to be cleaned, but they don't explain how. Maybe it's some kind of magnetic cleaner, or maybe he's simply opening the bottle up to clean it. It's an obv…

Cleaned from what exactly? Post science not speculation.

From The New York Times Garden Book:

...clear glass encourages the growth of algae...

The bottle garden should be cleaned inside and out once a month.

Algae growth tends to be rapid in bottle gardens... This monthly scrubbing and cleaning out is the key to the whole success story.

Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=rSiFAAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT522&pg=P...

and: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7858411

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#139

Post by Ma8ee »

murbard2 wrote: post #88
pas wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that leak out from .. basically anything solid?

We're not talking superfluidic Helium here... Glass or BPA should be fine... In that case the envelop is rigid and we might at well just suck out enough air to get buoyancy.

Helium doesn't need to be superfluid to leak through a lot of materials. If you are designing a ultra high vacuum system you better make sure the type of glass you use doesn't leak He. Or if you get the chance to play with a mass spectrometer you can inhale helium and observe how it leaks through your chest.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#140

Post by Someone »

murbard2 wrote: post #14

A clear balloon containing an ecosystem would heat up due to the greenhouse effect. If it's sufficiently large and allowed to slightly expand it could float freely in the air. Imagine closed gardens flying freely around the world.

Whether it would float would depend on the equilibrium that the ecosystem gets in. For example, carbon dioxide is heavier than air, so if the ecosystem has lots of it, a balloon would have to expand quite a bit to compensate for that before it floats. And of course, any balloon must overcome its own weight before getting airborne.
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