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From Gmail to Fastmail

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Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#131

Post by microtonal »

claudius wrote: post #126
microtonal wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't mean that they give or sell your data to other companies. In fact, that would be incredibly stupid, each bit of data you can sell only once, while as space, you can sell every day.

Is there really such a major difference between you giving your data to your email provider who then sells it to other companies or you giving data to your email provider who then uses it very much the same way these other companies would do?

One major difference is that data is sold tends to get a life on its own. Company A sells to B, B to C, etc. Before you know it, your e-mail address/phone number is in the hands of many companies.

Google is different in this regard. Since they don't sell raw data, it's easier to opt-out (remove data via the Dashboard[1], delete your account, etc.).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Dashboard

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#132

Post by microtonal »

Aoyagi wrote: post #4

Something I think is another huge plus people don't mention: you get an actual, living person for technical and other support.

Yep. I recently filed a feature request and a bug report. Both were replied to and fixed within one or two days by one of their developers.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#133

Post by Derbasti »

I recently switched from Gmail to a mail provider called Posteo. They are a German mail provider much like Fastmail. Here is the neat thing: You can create a mail account and physically mail them paper money, without ever giving them your name or address.

I wish more services would be doing that! In particular, I think we sorely need an anonymous way of paying money on the web, like physical money.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#134

Post by lallysingh »

plg wrote: post #74

"IMAP was working less reliably and I felt more like the product than the customer" This is the key for me. (1) IMAP not working well and in particular, (2) feeling more like the product than the customer. With fastmail.fm their business model is they provide a service (email) and in return I give them money. They succeed as a business by getting more money. I am happy to give them money in return for a high quality…

What makes you think that Google sells any information about you to third parties?

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#135

Post by dan1234 »

bigtones wrote: post #91
plg wrote: post #74

"IMAP was working less reliably and I felt more like the product than the customer" This is the key for me. (1) IMAP not working well and in particular, (2) feeling more like the product than the customer. With fastmail.fm their business model is they provide a service (email) and in return I give them money. They succeed as a business by getting more money. I am happy to give them money in return for a high quality…

Google Apps no longer serves ad's in email to anyone. So their business model is not to sell ads - it's to charge for email, calendar and storage - a very similar model to FastMail. Except Gmail has perfect forward secrecy, the best security of any email provider, and great web and mobile apps.

FastMail also claims PFS support

http://blog.fastmail.fm/2013/08/09/fastmail-uses-perfect-for...

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#136

Post by nhebb »

paul wrote: post #51
ForHackernews wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two types of "data under your control" at play here. The first (and for most users, more important) is about not giving away your data to marketing companies. Switching to Fastmail accomplishes that (probably?). The second is about securing your data from governments/state actors. That battle seems kind of futile to me. Even if I were running everything on my own server in my own basement, with my own ISP, I'…

It seems rather dishonest to imply that Google is giving (or selling) your data to marketing companies.

In Gmail, clicking the "Why the ad?" link pops up this message:

"This ad is based on emails from your mailbox and information from your Google account. Ads Settings puts you in control of the ads you see."

So clearly they are using your Gmail information for marketing purposes. Are they selling it directly? No. But it seems dishonest to me to claim that they aren't selling it just because there is a middleman (Google) between the marketer and Gmail user.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#137

Post by ameoba »

e12e wrote: post #99
gress wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also dishonest to imply that Google is not itself a marketing company.

I did take me a while to realize that Google long since made the pivot from tech company (the search engine that started it all) to ad company (where they make their money). After you look at the profit numbers, it really isn't all that interesting how they spin what they're doing -- or what they do to maintain a customer base that buys ads (such as creating a smart phone platform to stay relevant). I'm not actively…

Google's been an advertising company since the day they realized they could make money off of search.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#138

Post by claudius »

microtonal wrote: post #131
claudius wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really such a major difference between you giving your data to your email provider who then sells it to other companies or you giving data to your email provider who then uses it very much the same way these other companies would do?

One major difference is that data is sold tends to get a life on its own. Company A sells to B, B to C, etc. Before you know it, your e-mail address/phone number is in the hands of many companies. Google is different in this regard. Since they don't sell raw data, it's easier to opt-out (remove data via the Dashboard[1], delete your account, etc.). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Dashboard

Fair enough, that is indeed a – possibly major – difference, although Google department A sharing data with department B, which gives stuff to department C could be argued to be similar, as the size of these departments easily match those of other companies.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#139

Post by chmars »

I moved from Gmail to Fastmail too but I am not that happy. And no, Fastmail does not protect you from the NSA since Australia is one of the Five Eyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

I moved from Gmail to Fastmail because my personal CRM's mail integration depends on Apple Mail. Gmail and Apple Mail do not go well together because Gmail is not IMAP (and Apple Mail has some issues too, even with the latest improvements). So with Fastmail's 'real' IMAP implementation, that issue was resolved. But Fastmail is lacking in comparison to Gmail in many areas, just two examples:

Filtering: Spam, phishing etc. filtering cannot compare with Gmail. And for your own filters, you cannot create them directly from a mail and see immediately the result as you can in Gmail. You have to create your filters via the setting menu and have to manually check if they actually work …

Security: I use 2-factor authentication as often as possible. Gmail has a very balanced approach to 2-factor authentication. Fastmail on the other hand does not allow you to use 2-factor authentication as a general security measure but only as an _additional_ login. And the configuration is not user-friendly. And since it is only an _additional_ login, you do not get (or need) backup codes or another backup way for your 2-factor authentication like SMS.

Fastmail works fine as a very traditional mail provider but that is not far away from what hosting providers offer anyway.

Your mileage might vary of course. If you are looking for a traditional mail provider with reliable IMAP support, Fastmail is certainly a great choice.

Re: From Gmail to Fastmail

#140

Post by motters »

The lesson of Levison is that privacy assurances by email service providers are not necessarily trustworthy. Levison balked, but most wouldn't want to shut down their businesses.

For now the best bet is either to self host (it's not that hard, especially for most folks reading this) or to use something like ProtonMail where the content can't be routinely exfiltrated and the provider can't give the inbox keys to any third party.

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