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So You’re Not Desirable

nytimes.com

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Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#131

Post by curiouslurker »

Udo wrote: post #63

The article makes a good case for "when they get to know you, some of them will fall for you." When I was still young and at least somewhat cute, I remarked to a friend how depressing it was that women always go for rich and arrogant men. My friend's reply absolutely changed my perspective on this: by choosing socially well-accepted and successful men they actually place a lot more emphasis on the inner values than m…

> by choosing socially well-accepted and successful men they actually place a lot more emphasis on the inner values than males do. In a very real sense, women love you for who you are (=rich and successful) as opposed to what you look like (=a characteristic you can't do much about).

One might also argue the opposite: Men value women for who they are (looks included). Women value men for what they have (wealth and social status).

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#132

Post by EGreg »

Dewie wrote: post #129
EGreg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it mathematically absurd? Women have a smaller reproductive window than men. This includes periods which take a full 25% of the reproductive time. Men are available all the time. Women also bear a higher cost and greater investment in sex. So once again they are more selective. This creates greater competition among males for females than the other way around. Sure, the top guys have women competing for them b…

I think the topic is more about relationships, not sex in itself.

Well even in relationships these same considerations apply. A woman's investment in a relationship is higher since her biological clock is ticking, so to speak. She is most desirable in her teens and twenties and it falls off from there. Just ask who's chasing who after 35.

So, she will try to optimize her time in long term relationship with the best marriage / long term love partner prospect. That's why she cares about more than looks.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#133

Post by Dewie »

EGreg wrote: post #132
Dewie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the topic is more about relationships, not sex in itself.

Well even in relationships these same considerations apply. A woman's investment in a relationship is higher since her biological clock is ticking, so to speak. She is most desirable in her teens and twenties and it falls off from there. Just ask who's chasing who after 35. So, she will try to optimize her time in long term relationship with the best marriage / long term love partner prospect. That's why she cares ab…

And what are men's considerations in long term relationships? It doesn't seem like they are just going along with the first woman who deems them worthy.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#135

Post by EGreg »

Dewie wrote: post #133
EGreg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well even in relationships these same considerations apply. A woman's investment in a relationship is higher since her biological clock is ticking, so to speak. She is most desirable in her teens and twenties and it falls off from there. Just ask who's chasing who after 35. So, she will try to optimize her time in long term relationship with the best marriage / long term love partner prospect. That's why she cares ab…

And what are men's considerations in long term relationships? It doesn't seem like they are just going along with the first woman who deems them worthy.

I guess there's a whole spectrum. Many men aren't interested in committing anymore. In general though men 21-40 are the chasers in the beginning and women are the chasers in the relationship.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#136

Post by JacksonGariety »

enimodas wrote: post #102
JacksonGariety wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, could I chat with you be email? My address is on my HN profile.

You have to put your email address in the about section, the email field is for "Please put a valid address in the email field, or we won't be able to send you a new password if you forget yours. Your address is only visible to you and us. Crawlers and other users can't see it."

updated

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#137

Post by HeyImAlex »

Dewie wrote: post #76
HeyImAlex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can find objectification at the root of anger and bitterness associated with the friend zone (which is often how I see the term used; the girl "puts you" in the friend zone after all). "But I'm so perfect for her, why can't she just seeeee" does show a disregard for the humanity of the admired; women are allowed to have opinions, and hitting all of the imaginary checkboxes on what make you perfect for her…

Rejection sucks some times, and bitterness and blame is one way to cope with it (and hopefully it is only temporary, and you don't take it out on anyone). Bitterness often manifests itself as unfairly blaming the other party. These are emotions , the words and opinions that they evoke don't necessarily have any rational basis.

Yeah, you're probably right. You could probably still argue that emotions can be subconsciously driven by an ingrained sexist worldview, but I think anyone who is rejected goes through bitterness and that's just natural.

Id written something long and rambly, but to kind of summarize my thoughts, "friendzone" is used in lot of different ways and means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#139

Post by sheepmullet »

rdtsc wrote: post #11
hangonhn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always hated the term "friend zone" because I think it's really as simple as you have just described. One person likes the other and the feeling isn't reciprocated. It's unrequited love. The friendship part makes things more painful and complicated but I don't think it has any bearing on why the person isn't attracted to the other.

Exactly. I think the "friend zone" concept reflects the cultural idea that a person (mostly woman) can be persuaded to fall in love with someone if that someone just tries hard enough. It kind of reflect the idea of women as passive objects that have to be "conquered" or "persuaded" by feats of courage, strength, show of wealth or humor. So now it is the fault of the pursuer for not working hard enough or "screwing u…

"Exactly. I think the "friend zone" concept reflects the cultural idea that a person (mostly woman) can be persuaded to fall in love with someone if that someone just tries hard enough. It kind of reflect the idea of women as passive objects that have to be "conquered" or "persuaded" by feats of courage, strength, show of wealth or humor."

I feel it's the exact opposite. The entire idea behind being friendzoned is that you can't get out of it and should cut your losses. It isn't considered heroic to "fight" the friendzone... it is considered stupid.

The problem with the friendzone is the power imbalance. If there is no imbalance it is just simple friendship. A few women love the power and take advantage of it just like a few bosses love the power and take advantage of their employees.

If the cool "jock" takes advantage of the nerd who desperately wants to be cool we (society) think the jock is being an asshole. But if an attractive woman does the same thing it is suddenly the nerd who is at fault.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#140

Post by cafard »

greggman wrote: post #12

I'm not sure how this is helpful. I've known I'm personally more attracted to personality than looks. That's not the problem. The problem is it's hard (at least for me) to get the opportunity to be around members of the opposite sex long enough for them to see my "uniqueness" Personal examples. My last job of 5 years had 100 people on my floor only 2 of which were women. My friends are generally all geeks who have no…

Volunteer. Get involved with a tutoring program or ESL or something like that. Walk dogs for your local shelter--I was running in the park last summer and encountered a group walking shelter dogs. The group was mostly women, and the women were mostly attractive. It is also a fair bet that they were good-natured and generous people.
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