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Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

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131–140 of 171 posts

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#131

Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?

Exactly what I was thinking. Its quite insulting to suggest that girls are so myopic they can't possibly be inspired unless they meet someone of the same gender. For the record, I'm a female engineer who moved to the USA from Ghana when I was a smaller. I can't stand this ridiculous patronizing attitude there is towards female engineers, as if we need "extra help" or something. Even worse are the feminists creating u…

> I can't stand this ridiculous patronizing attitude there is towards female engineers, as if we need "extra help" or something. Even worse are the feminists creating us-vs-them politicization of the issue.

Nobody is saying women engineers need extra help. Wanting to meet someone who you identify with as a woman in STEM is not necessarily easy and it is totally legitimate to seek someone out. As for feminists and feminism, I don't know of anything that would suggest an us vs. them attitude, generally feminist leaning groups look to increase participation of women in STEM through a variety of ways.

> When I was learning to code, ride a bike, tie my shoes or something, I never thought "gosh I can't do that since none of the role models are female". In fact, if there are no role models of the same gender or race, its usually even more inspiring as you want to be the first one.

This may be true for yourself and others, but we know that this is not true on a larger scale. People can and do internalize messages about the kind of people that exist in certain professions and this can be self limiting in both conscious and unconscious ways. I'm not speaking for any one person about that, but it is legitimate to find a role model that you identify with esp. when you are a minority status in a group.

You can read more about stereotype threat here: http://www.reducingstereotypethreat.org/definition.html

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you need a woman? Because role models are a great thing thing for a young person to have. Why is it a problem for him to want a female role model for a female child? Why do you think that "wanting his daughter to meet a female engineer" represents inequality? Do you think that it would somehow be more equal for women to only have male role models?

"Do you think that it would somehow be more equal for women to only have male role models?" You seem to be going to great effort to misunderstand me. By saying "I think young people should have access to everyone, not just people demographically like them," you seem to have heard "I think young women should only have access to people unlike them." A call for inclusion has been misrepresented as a call for exclusion.…

> By saying "I think young people should have access to everyone, not just people demographically like them," you seem to have heard "I think young women should only have access to people unlike them."

> A call for inclusion has been misrepresented as a call for exclusion.

In terms of gender, cisgender men by far the norm, they have no problem being represented. Women in general are not as well represented, someone looking for a women as a role model would have to look harder to find someone. To that end, a highly represented group doesn't need special consideration to be included, they are heavily included already.

> For the same reason that it would be a problem to only want male role models for male children. It reinforces existing problems and stereotypes, prevents social connections across demographics, limits group knowledge cross pollination, and limits the students' access to whoever is the best mentor available in the case that that mentor does not match them demographically.

Nobody is arguing that role models should be limited. Indeed, if this person's daughter pursues STEM they will likely have a man as a role model at some point since they are well represented. Groups of people that are not as well represented will be harder to come across so it is not a bad idea for someone to seek out different people.

> Does this actually need to be explained?

It does to a certain degree, as it seems that you feel that the extra search and effort to find a woman role model detracts from the dominant group.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#133

> she's in love with it > I can't talk her out of it. I've tried. Why would you try and talk her out of something she's in love with? If she "knows some python", is she in love with it? Is she actively learning more on the web?

Because progress means making girls do boy things

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#134
post #94

Hi Niels! If you end up finding something interesting for your daughter, I think HN would love to hear about it. I know I would. Consider this an invitation for her to write something about it and post it here and/or for you to write something about it and post it here. I have to say I envied you for a moment. My daughter once enjoyed an afternoon with me at the REPL, but then politely made it clear that we wouldn't…

This may seem silly, but what is REPL ? (All I can conclude is Read Eval Print Loop, but that doesn't seem to make sense with the context.)

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#135

Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?

Exactly what I was thinking. Its quite insulting to suggest that girls are so myopic they can't possibly be inspired unless they meet someone of the same gender. For the record, I'm a female engineer who moved to the USA from Ghana when I was a smaller. I can't stand this ridiculous patronizing attitude there is towards female engineers, as if we need "extra help" or something. Even worse are the feminists creating u…

I used to feel that way. Then, I realized I had no one to talk to when I saw blatant sexism affect my friends because there were no tenured woman on the faculty whom I knew. I've been lucky that it hasn't hit me, but it's out there and it is insidious.

Also, I'll add another +1 to the people who are saying it's nice to see someone like you. There are questions that it is safer to ask someone who has faced similar struggles in the past. For example, I would love to meet more female professors who have managed to find a balance between family/R01-level research/service.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#136
post #134
post #94

Hi Niels! If you end up finding something interesting for your daughter, I think HN would love to hear about it. I know I would. Consider this an invitation for her to write something about it and post it here and/or for you to write something about it and post it here. I have to say I envied you for a moment. My daughter once enjoyed an afternoon with me at the REPL, but then politely made it clear that we wouldn't…

This may seem silly, but what is REPL ? (All I can conclude is Read Eval Print Loop, but that doesn't seem to make sense with the context.)

That is exactly what it is. The interpreter Reads in the code the author writes, Evaluates it, and Prints the results. It also prints error codes. Then it Loops back to a prompt.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#137
I'm many timezones out from there and wrong gender etc., but I have some advice that may be of use.

Since (as I understand it) the idea of same-gender is to make the connection more straightforward, I would further suggest that you prefer a graduate student to an actual "worker".

At my university there is a grad-student scholarship that requires fieldwork to be done in a certain place (first nations community). The grad student has to involve a local high-school student in the fieldwork. When I first heard of this I thought it was wonky social engineering, but apparently it's a great success: fun and educational for both.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#138

> she's in love with it > I can't talk her out of it. I've tried. Why would you try and talk her out of something she's in love with? If she "knows some python", is she in love with it? Is she actively learning more on the web?

16 hours is a rather massive amount of time to invest into any sport (not many exist that your body would tolerate for that long in the span of a week). The "balance" thing goes the other direction, too.

For most girls (less for boys apparently) this problem solves itself by age 14, and he'll probably have to nudge her to do some sport of any kind by 15.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you think that it would somehow be more equal for women to only have male role models?" You seem to be going to great effort to misunderstand me. By saying "I think young people should have access to everyone, not just people demographically like them," you seem to have heard "I think young women should only have access to people unlike them." A call for inclusion has been misrepresented as a call for exclusion.…

> By saying "I think young people should have access to everyone, not just people demographically like them," you seem to have heard "I think young women should only have access to people unlike them." > A call for inclusion has been misrepresented as a call for exclusion. In terms of gender, cisgender men by far the norm, they have no problem being represented. Women in general are not as well represented, someone l…

I feel like I can't reply because I'm being mass downvoted for saying "I think women should have access to everybody" and being told that that makes me a bad person.

"Nobody is arguing that role models should be limited."

The entire tree I'm responding to is.

Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad to know there are others who see it the way I do. I draw great inspiration from people who do not have my gender, my race, or several other role model limiting demographic factors. I feel very sad for people who are set up to not have the advantage of looking up to everyone of value. =========== Edit: why is this being downvoted? Is it disagreeable to say "I have learned from people unlike me?" Are we now s…

The reason why you are being downvoted is that the notion of "I think people of every gender, race, etc are of value and should be available." doesn't really address the issue of why someone who is in a minority in STEM would seek out someone like themselves as a role model. People have value, but we can't deny that for some people finding someone like themselves in a particular field is very difficult. Those people…

"The reason why you are being downvoted is that the notion of "I think people of every gender, race, etc are of value and should be available." doesn't really address the issue of why someone who is in a minority in STEM would seek out someone like themselves as a role model."

This reads to me like

"You are being downvoted because your opinion doesn't address the original question you asked."

I have been polite, friendly, and reasonable. You guys are punishing an opinion about increasing inclusiveness because it goes against your norm.

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