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Fired? Speak No Evil

nytimes.com

131–140 of 378 posts

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#131

I wonder if you could head this off contractually when you start a new job? Something like adding "Severance pay will not be made conditional on limitations of free speech." to the contract that you and your employer sign when you start a new job.

First you would have to get contractually guaranteed severance pay, which is a lot more than most people get.

Not necessarily. They probably wouldn't even notice the clause in the contract until you pointed it out when you refused to sign the disparagement clause.

As an aside, the last time I got "severance" was in 2003 - my severance was a free lunch. It was a good company that went out of business.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#132
> I think I get to keep last year’s Christmas gift of an iPad, and the previous year’s bottle of wine has long been drunk

A way to reduce burn rate could have included slightly less lavish gifts.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies could save themselves a lot of pretense with exit interviews and just assume the following: If a good person leaves your company, it is because of one or more of the following: 1. You can't (or won't) pay them as much as someone else. 2. They aren't happy in the culture of your company. 3. They aren't happy with the type of work they are doing. 4. They don't see a bright future with your company - either fo…

So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? I mean you have a list of 9 reasons off the top of your head and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

The company should be having that grownup conversation well before I leave. If my manager does not know why I'm leaving, they haven't been doing their job as a manager...which may be one of the reasons I'm leaving. :-)

Of the companies I've worked for that hold exit interviews, and I've had conversations with ex-coworkers about what they said at the exit interview, it would appear that it doesn't make any difference anyway. So why open yourself up to any liability, or help relieve your ex-employer of any liability? Don't waste your time, or even their time for that matter.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#134
> Though such clauses don’t technically violate the First Amendment

Not technically, not in spirit, not in any way related to the 1st amendment. Have so few people actually bothered to learn even a little about the 1st amendment? You can read the entire first amendment several times and then ponder it a little in just a few minutes, because it's very short. In fact, I'll paste the entire text:

  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
  religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
  abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the
  right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
  the Government for a redress of grievances.
To boil it down even further for relevance:

  Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press
That's it. The contract and agreement to it have nothing to do with the first amendment.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#135
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yuck. This is the sort of thing that is nudging me from "I never ever want to work for EA" to "I no longer want to buy things from EA"

This is what pushed me over the edge. http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/

To be fair, the whole EA Spouse thing happened quite a while ago.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#136
post #62

I wouldn't sign that any more than I'd sign a contract that gave the company everything that I produce in my own time. Both are attempts by the corporation to dissolve my agency as a human being. The only right answer is no.

No they're not. From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration Consideration is something of value given by a promissor to a promisee in exchange for something of value given by a promisee to a promissor. Typically, the thing of value is a payment, although it may be an act, or forbearance to act. Paying you not to speak is no more an attempt to dissolve your human agency than paying you to speak. Assumin…

> Assuming you have nothing disparaging to say, not agreeing is foolish

The article stated the author would have to give up his lifetime right to make "any negative or disparaging statements (orally or in writing) about the Company or its stockholders, directors, officers, employees, products, services or business practices". That's a huge thing. Let's imagine the company you worked for starts selling organs of little orphans for transplant. You are not allowed to criticize them for that. Let's say they start a fracking operation that contaminates the water of millions of people. Or irresponsibly build a nuclear reactor that melts down a week later. Imagine one of the stockholders is Carl Icahn. You'll never be able to criticize him again. Or Donald Trump. Can you imagine never being able to make fun of his hair? Imagine then your cable company buys one share of the company you worked for. Now you can't criticize them if your TV goes out because they are a shareholder. Imagine your ex-wife learns about your contract and buys one share.

You get the idea.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#137
These agreements come with monetary penalties such as $10000 per disparaging remark. Also agreements come into place not necessarily with a signature but with the consideration, the severance money going to you.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#138
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a source for this? I've never heard of this before and am curious what legal restriction you are referring to.

It's in a secret section of the constitution on employment law, that overrides the first amendment.

The first amendment (and all the rest of it) has nothing to do with non-governmental, private interactions.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#139
It takes money to sue someone, and, given that the company is downsizing, it doesn't sound like they have money to do that.

I'd consider taking the two weeks severance and ignoring the clause. What are they going to win back, the 2 weeks of severance plus what? The amount of time and money plus potential negative publicity they're going to generate just isn't worth it. I realize this might seem unprincipled, but they're being pretty unprincipled by putting the clause in the exit agreement anyway.

Regardless, it's usually best not to talk smack about previous employers. Better to damn with faint praise.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#140
Heh. Almost two years ago I was fired from a fairly prominent internet services company... Ah, who am I trying to avoid? It was Akamai.

I speak ill of them all the time. Not about their impressive infrastructure and engineering, or the scores of brilliant people I had the privilege to work with. No, it was more my experience with the corporate culture and the pervasive games of "power politics" that anybody who wasn't a manager was constantly subject to. Unfortunately I ended up in a position to be the patsy for a director's bad decisions, to make a long story short.

Indeed, I was asked to sign an agreement in exchange for money, and because of the timing of things (newborn baby 2.5 weeks prior) I needed the money more than I needed the freedom to speak my mind about the situation. And it really wasn't very much money, just like in the linked article.

However, despite sending the signed agreement certified mail, the money never showed up, their HR department claims it was never received, and the money didn't end up mattering so much as I was fielding offers within a month and began my current position in short order.

Since then I've received several letters from them, asking for my signature on various things and I refuse - There's simply nothing they can do to me. But I know quite well that I'm lucky. I've got a skill set and experience that puts me in demand, and anybody who asks why I was fired can get a simple answer: "Here's my LinkedIn profile, take note of the slew of recommendations I got within a week of my termination."

(I will add, my subsequent contact with their HR and legal department did have me worried about things for a while - not to mention various thinly-veiled verbal threats made by my former director before and during my termination, in case you're wondering just what kind of politics and culture made me dislike the place)

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