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Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

sergioschuler.com

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Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#131
post #7

Lesson N+1: Hacker News can break your blog's webserver. That's one you only learn through experience. [ETA: which is sad, because I want to read it!]

I copied it to a pastebin: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6992850

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think sales skills are completely fungible across domains My experience across a fifteen year business confirms this. Year one I had to sell. As an engineer I was a horrible sales guy. A couple of my dealers took me under their wing and over approximately a year a made notable changes. Years later, as we grew, I had to hire sales people. That's when I learned the lesson. If someone is good about selling pro…

I suspect that there are a lot of stories of salesman candidates coming in the door, saying "I have a huge rolodex, I know a hundred people to whom I can sell this right now ," that turned out to be duds. Oh, they spent their time on the phone talking with their old buddies, who occasionally bought one or two as a favor, but it never came through anything close to what you, the non-salesman-founder, were expecting.

Well, it's that and a lot more.

Some of the really established guys --20+ year career in the industry-- can come with this "I can walk on water" attitude as they drive their leased Jaguar into their parking slot. Then they cave when they realize this is a new market segment and a new product segment in the industry. They are used to people coming to them to buy the old stuff. Now they actually have to work, learn the new product, learn the new lingo and also identify customers who might be receptive to the message.

Then you have the guy who worked for a rather large company and is used to the fish jumping into the boat. No fishing rod or fish finder required. You don't even have to know how to bait a hook. These guys, amazingly enough, actually think they are selling. When faced with a situation where the phone only rings if they make it ring they don't do very well.

There's the guy who faked it in a good market, got lucky and built a reputation on circumstance rather than skill. When things change (i.e., the economy tanks) the reality of their capabilities comes to the surface.

Then there's the inability to adjust to a change of audience. You don't sell to an engineer the same way you might sell to a manager or the president of a company.

One of the most frustrating things for me has always been the sales person who attempts to take credit for a sale that came in because I spent tens of thousands of dollars in marketing. They think you are stupid. Or at least they act that way. Some of the most memorable moments in my experience have been after major trade-shows. Imagine having a sales person come to you like he just climbed Everest to close a sale after you just spent over $100K to exhibit at a trade-show for a week. You look further and you see the sale was due to a years-long relationship with the customer as well as a meeting at the trade-show where the sales guy didn't even interface with the customer. What did happen is that he got and printed the purchase order because he was in charge with monitoring sales@company.com. In retrospect it is really funny and it also reveals interesting character flaws.

And, of course, there's the mercenary sales person who will hand out discounts like they are candy in order to book sales and look like a genius to anyone except for the person who actually looks at the numbers.

There's more, of course,

The advantage of the motivated newbie is that they can learn the product, the market and the approach. It takes six months to a year of real work to get someone up to speed, but it can really pay off. Most business owners I reached out for advice would roll their eyes when I asked for the secret to hiring good sales people. Everyone had horror stories galore.

One of the toughest skills to learn for in-person sales is to know when to close your mouth and let the process happen. When I started my business I would talk and talk and talk. I probably lost more sales to that than any other blunder. A year later, I'd show up to a call, "read" the room, meet some of the people I didn't know, setup the demo and mostly let the customers sell themselves on the product. Selling by saying less, not more, is a skill that takes time to develop. Most really good sales people are very relaxed and confident during a sales call.

One of my friends put it like this: It's like the hotel business. You can print beautiful brochures; exquisitely redecorate the rooms; have amazing food and all manner of services. You can't force people to take a vacation.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#133
post #78

"Instead of surfing the wave and adapting my idea to what a real prospect client was telling me they wanted" FFS don't do this. There are far too many startups beached on the shores of "well, this one SRS BZNS client wanted us to change what we were doing so we did. Where'd all the rest of our clients go?" I'm not saying "don't pivot", but "just making what they wanted" (where N(they) = 1) turns you into a poorly-pai…

I don't think you have to ask "Where'd all the rest of our clients go?" when you don't have any clients to begin with.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#134
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Sales is often domain-specific, and this becomes truer the longer you spend in any given domain. And sometimes a long list of great contacts is more of a liability than a benefit. You need someone who can call up anybody you need them to -- not just someone who's going to hit up his list every time. The people on the list might not even be the customers you want or need. Hell, who you need may change in two…

Wait, so, not having ever done sales, I'm not sure what you mean. What is in the set of "capital-S-Sales" that's not "salesmanship?"

I think he is saying that a CEO can have salesmanship skills like the ones listed in order to "sell" people on the idea of working for the company, but it doesn't mean that he is also able to pick up the phone and do cold calls to sell widgets.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#135

"Since we were 3 business people, we spent all this time into idiot plans, budget forecasts, BUSINESS CARDS, fancy website… all useless things which in the end did not contribute to anything." I've been apart of a lot of startups and this is far and away the best advice. It was a common theme with two startups I worked for during the boom years. One CEO's hubris was stunning. 10 million privately funded and he blew m…

Did you work at Entertainment 720?

Nope.

One of the startups was a telecom company, the other an educational software company.

The telecom company was the one that burned through all the millions. They had an exclusive contract with one of the regional bells and were trying to make high speed internet accessible to the masses. They were banking on fiber instead of the existing DSL which ran over copper. Essentially using T1 fiber to give high speeds at the cost of copper DSL.

They thought they had a home run with a growing base of clients, and were trying to get acquired more than build the next Frontier Telecommunications.

They had a crazy story, maybe sometime I'll let the details go. That was a crazy time for sure.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#136
A mistake I made early on was trying to provide a product as cheap as possible. Constantly worried that no one would pay what we asked for.

Basically being afraid to ask for the value it was really worth.

I think there was a comma/period swap, but if I'm reading correctly it looked like the product was positioned at $30 / mo?

Assuming that's correct - it's really not a meaningful amount to any company that has enough employees and management to actually be a user of the product.

I think a $30 / mo with a free 30 day trial period (once product launches and they can actually try it ;) ) that requires a credit card for the trail could have worked.

Would still need a product to actually try, but that's not much different than saying get a free trial and just taking in email addresses.

If anyone remembers the Minimalytics / Small HQ folks - I thought they did a good job with their signups. The only thing for me was I disappointed by how minimal their product was in beta. It was so basic I didn't have any use for it, and running our own startup, didn't have time to wait. We ended up building it internally.

I probably would have converted to a paying user if it was more developed at beta. Not their fault though, they did a good job I thought(if you're reading Small HQ).

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#137

Great write up, I think this point is crucial: Founder roles and expectations. Even if the goal/role is to be the non tech founder, it's important to learn the basis of html, CSS and Javascript. It will give you another perspective when you think about how to implement an idea.

I learned this one the hard way. Started as two founders, one techincal, one biz dev (I'm the biz dev).

We brought on a third (largely my doing), as more of the operations / finance side. Didn't set roles, and my biggest gaff of all was to not make him vest.

After a year, the third founder turned into a maniacal control freak and almost sank us. Finally departed, but took his equity with him.

My biggest lesson so far is be very careful who you partner with and ALWAYS vest. Or another way to put it, you don't need to worry about the good times, it's the bad times you need to consider and pre-negotiating the divorce is critical.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you work at Entertainment 720?

Nope. One of the startups was a telecom company, the other an educational software company. The telecom company was the one that burned through all the millions. They had an exclusive contract with one of the regional bells and were trying to make high speed internet accessible to the masses. They were banking on fiber instead of the existing DSL which ran over copper. Essentially using T1 fiber to give high speeds a…

I think you missed the reference. They were referring to a company from the TV show Parks & Recreation. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX0ZF8f8G0A

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I am not a developer, but I believe having an idea -> finding a developer is the wrong flow. It should be like this: 1. Have the idea. 2. Get customers who give you real money to build this idea. 3. Get a developer by telling "I already have paying customers". Actually, I disagree. Even if you're not a developer, you should still strive to learn enough development such that you can push out the first version of the…

As a developer and solo founder, I just can not finish a serious project in one year. For example, it took me two years to get version 1 of torapp guilloche designer (www.torapp.info). We did not get consistent/significant customers and we need a new product to survive. To evaluate more ideas and to be familiar with respective areas took me another year easily (without deep knowledge in the area, how can you beat you…

>So how can you guys roll out a product in 3 months? How can you quickly pivot?

Tooling. To elaborate, if you're hand writing code to call an API, then you're doing to much. This is a 15 minute task at most, and that includes production level validation, security, etc. on both the client and server.

Also, basic code quality checks should be running non-stop in a separate terminal and automated tests should also be running. Plus the core automated tests should themselves be automated.

Developing an API is again a 15 minute task.

To be totally clear, proper tooling will take you from prototype to (early) production. Obviously, tooling does not write your application for you, but standing up a basic app where you can use the UI and move data to/from the backend needs to happen with a minimum of effort. Once the core design/structure is done, you can spend your time on value add activities such as UI customization, custom business logic, and so on.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that there are a lot of stories of salesman candidates coming in the door, saying "I have a huge rolodex, I know a hundred people to whom I can sell this right now ," that turned out to be duds. Oh, they spent their time on the phone talking with their old buddies, who occasionally bought one or two as a favor, but it never came through anything close to what you, the non-salesman-founder, were expecting.

Well, it's that and a lot more. Some of the really established guys --20+ year career in the industry-- can come with this "I can walk on water" attitude as they drive their leased Jaguar into their parking slot. Then they cave when they realize this is a new market segment and a new product segment in the industry. They are used to people coming to them to buy the old stuff. Now they actually have to work, learn the…

Would you look for anything in particular when choosing a newbie? Maybe expeirence in used cars or insurance?
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