Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#131

Post by sejje » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

newnewnew wrote: post #88

gmisra wrote: post #20

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results. As a consumer, I would not have a problem with Google, et al giving rapgenius results a special algorithmic bump to move them up. I also know that this is an opinion - it may be a popular opinion, but it is still inherently subjective. 2. If I was in rapgeniu…

I can't tell if Hacker News hates African-American culture, or just white boys who take part in it. If they were annotating Opera Librettas and spoke in Victorian English, I'm sure HN would love them. It's not like they are complete posers. They got investment from Nas.

Have you seen these guys? They don't seem to be taking part in African American culture to me.

They just seem like massive, massive toolbags.

I find them extremely distasteful. They're trying way too hard.

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#132

Post by mcgwiz » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

gmisra wrote: post #20

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results. As a consumer, I would not have a problem with Google, et al giving rapgenius results a special algorithmic bump to move them up. I also know that this is an opinion - it may be a popular opinion, but it is still inherently subjective. 2. If I was in rapgeniu…

What do find "juvenile" or "offensive" about them? The rap subject matter they cater to?

I've always found them reasonably professional, particularly their evidence-driven handling of the Heroku load distribution debacle.

http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-l...

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#133

Post by newnewnew » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

look_lookatme wrote: post #109

newnewnew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if Hacker News hates African-American culture, or just white boys who take part in it. If they were annotating Opera Librettas and spoke in Victorian English, I'm sure HN would love them. It's not like they are complete posers. They got investment from Nas.

I don't particularly care about librettas or victorian english, but the shit these guys say is pretty absurd. In any case this weekend we are going to have them play some heads-up poker, a set of tennis, a drinking contest - a winner gwan emerge (Ilan) and you girls gonna see wassup. If you wanna cover these "World's Sexiest Startup Man" events you are welcome - we will get you soused up you gonna feel nice. Let me c…

Valleywag is east coast hater bullshit. It's a badge of honor to get attacked by Valleywag[1]

[1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-...

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#134

Post by look_lookatme » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:23 PM UTC

newnewnew wrote: post #133

look_lookatme wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly care about librettas or victorian english, but the shit these guys say is pretty absurd. In any case this weekend we are going to have them play some heads-up poker, a set of tennis, a drinking contest - a winner gwan emerge (Ilan) and you girls gonna see wassup. If you wanna cover these "World's Sexiest Startup Man" events you are welcome - we will get you soused up you gonna feel nice. Let me c…

Valleywag is east coast hater bullshit. It's a badge of honor to get attacked by Valleywag[1] [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-...

What does that have to do with the way these guys act?

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#135

Post by cardine » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:26 PM UTC

davemel37 wrote: post #40

gmisra wrote: post #20

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results. As a consumer, I would not have a problem with Google, et al giving rapgenius results a special algorithmic bump to move them up. I also know that this is an opinion - it may be a popular opinion, but it is still inherently subjective. 2. If I was in rapgeniu…

1. If Google would penalize their own sites for link schemes (i.e. Chrome) done by third party agencies, certainly they should for Rap Genius. This isn't about whats the best site, this is about maintaining credibility in their index. The moment Google plays favorites manually is the moment I switch to another search engine. 2. Gaming SEO is attractive to almost everybody. Google needs to make it so painful to get ca…

> 2. Gaming SEO is attractive to almost everybody. Google needs to make it so painful to get caught, that people won't bother risking it in the future.

If Google makes it painful to get caught while also doing a poor job algorithmically catching people, it just incentivizes people to do "pump and dump" type sites where they use blackhat tactics to get a lyric site to the top of Google and then rinse and repeat when they get caught.

The most optimal way to make money with SEO right now is to rank quickly with blackhat SEO tactics and then when you get penalized you create a new site and start over again. This means the competitive serps are always in a state of flux as there is a revolving door of short term sites.

This hurts legit sites - they have a lot to lose by breaking Google's policies so even if they offer a better experience they'll be outranked by short term sites that don't care about Google's policies since they expect to only last half a year anyways.

> The game is the game is a poor excuse. give me $15mm and a site like Rap Genius and I'll get it outranking everybody in the space in 9 months, with only legit strategies.

Give me $20,000 and I'll outrank a "clean" $15mm budget since I won't be barred from doing the things that actually work. It might only survive 6 months, but I'll make a positive ROI and I'll repeat the process again.

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#136

Post by smackfu » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:27 PM UTC

mcgwiz wrote: post #132

gmisra wrote: post #20

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results. As a consumer, I would not have a problem with Google, et al giving rapgenius results a special algorithmic bump to move them up. I also know that this is an opinion - it may be a popular opinion, but it is still inherently subjective. 2. If I was in rapgeniu…

What do find "juvenile" or "offensive" about them? The rap subject matter they cater to? I've always found them reasonably professional, particularly their evidence-driven handling of the Heroku load distribution debacle. http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-l...

Did you see the original email that prompted this whole thing? It sounds like a frat boy. http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#137

Post by smackfu » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:29 PM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #126

newnewnew wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stop using slang. Get rid of that swagger. Don't brag. And wear a goddamn button-down shirt." In other words, stop acting like Jay-Z and start acting like Mark Zuckerberg.

Jay-Z wear a button-down shirt now tho

And Zuckerberg isn't exactly who I would choose as a "play by the rules" example.

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#138

Post by lemming » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:36 PM UTC

I notice that they are actually capable of writing English like a normal person when it benefits them.

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#139

Post by smackfu » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:36 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #72

To go off on a slight tangent: WTF have they done to their links? They open crappy preview windows, totally breaking the UX in the process?

They aren't really links. They are annotations that include a link. This makes more sense in the context of the rest of the site, where any random word in lyrics may be annotated, and you don't really want to click on a word and be sent to a site instead of seeing a popup that explains what that lyric means.

Re: Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO

#140

Post by smackfu » Tue, Dec 24, 2013, 9:39 PM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #16

Can someone actually explain or try to convince me why paid links are bad? What about non-paid SEO links? I am not familiar with the arguments. Say I am running a blog and I am asking my friends to include my blog link in everyone one of his links regardless what. And we are just doing this to get each other noticed. Say he's writing a C++ tutorial and I will also cook up a Python equivalent and say "hey guys if you…

It's because using links to rank search results is only valid if the links are organic. Once people start paying for links, now the existence of the link is only indicating who paid for links, not who has good content. That's why Google penalizes them.