Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a very common viewpoint among technical people, sadly. Kind of like how humanists think math is about counting things. I'm not implying Gates is of that variety, but, you know, his kind, our kind. Not that there's much point in reading Shakespeare nowadays, anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_cultures
"This is a very common viewpoint among technical people, sadly" Really? The usual image is that techie geek types lap up scifi and fantasy, which when done properly are all about the human condition.
The Best Books I Read in 2013
131–140 of 164 posts
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are some books you deem as good based on that criteria?
Infinite Jest, Herzog, Ulysses, Things Fall Apart, The Magic Mountain, Zeno's Conscience, The Sun Also Rises, Underworld, ...
Also, I would add The Crying of Lot 49 to your list.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#133"But I read mostly nonfiction because I always want to learn more about how the world works." Boy oh boy, if I had a quarter every time I heard that probably I could get a tall Starbucks latte. Many, many people are under the assumption that fiction is stuff that somebody made up and hence useless while non-fiction gives you information about the world; so if you're a busy person, read non-fiction (it's of, course de…
Tell me two books that'll teach me so much. Please.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reading fiction tends to be the best way to train the habit of seeing the world through someone else's eyes, and a little empathy goes a long way in many life situations indeed.
There's an associated danger with fiction: though it reflects how the author sees the world, it may not match how the world really is. Fiction can intentionally or unintentionally invite readers to draw universal lessons which are misleading. I'd even suggest that some authors, particularly those with strong political views, may be motivated to write fiction in order to give support to their own ideas. It's a blank c…
That's what a lot of good fiction is superb at installing in one's mind. It's what books can do like no other medium. Good fiction is as close as listening in on another's thought stream as we get. I think it's particularly valuable for children.
Now, there's also non-fiction writing that can do this - experience reports, auto-biographies, letter collections (some of my most formative young-age reading experiences were Robert Falcon Scott's expedition diaries and his letters of good-bye and regret written near his death). But there's an element of someone presenting themselves to the world there that I think fiction more frequently isn't affected by. Though it's true that authors speak through their characters, so fiction writing isn't unbiased either, of course.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What are you arguing against? He didn't say that fiction is always better than non-fiction for learning about the world. And what is the OP arguing about? Mr. Gates didn't say that non-fiction is always better for learning about the world. > Non-fiction gives you more information about the world by default Sorry, but it does. Easily testable hypothesis; go to the NY Times Bestsellers lists and compare, book-for-boo…
>Mr. Gates didn't say that non-fiction is always better for learning about the world. Of course he didn't, he said something worse. The literal quote from Bill Gates is: "But I read mostly nonfiction because I always want to learn more about how the world works". The immediate conclusion that you can take from that is "if you want to learn more about how the world works, then don't read fiction". It's the assumption…
Your problem is assuming there's an immediate conclusion to be drawn.
Maybe you can take a step back and understand that this is a guy writing an article about some good books he read this year, rather than a treatise on the uselessness of fiction. Look at the context. Because I certainly didn't come to "the" immediate conclusion that you did.
A big component of reading comprehension is understanding context. Do you really think the purpose of what he wrote was what you imply? Maybe, but I doubt it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
>I'll give you just one example of the opposite
Coming up with a single counter example doesn't dismiss the general. No one is arguing anywhere (including Mr. Gates) that all fiction is useless to learn from. Does me presenting one useless fiction book and one beneficial non-fiction book prove my point? Because I guarantee I have more examples.
>Sorry, but if you get to redefine things in order to suit your argument
Huh? My definition? I explicitly stated "as most of us understand it". Because, you know, most of us do understand the word a specific way. I stated it as such because I foresaw someone like you jumping in with some pseudo-intellectual argument that "learning is this, learning isthat", when 90% of us agree on what is implied by the phrase "to learn".
>For example: read "Confessions of a Heiress"
Wait a minute: on one hand you're telling me to read popular fiction of days past to gain insight into the views of others, then on the other you dismiss the non-fiction writings of a twentieth century pop-culture icon for its lack of similar insight? Brilliant. If you don't think the writings of someone like Paris Hilton can teach us anything about society and culture, on various levels, I don't know what to tell you.
>by your logic, you will surely learn more about the world reading that than something like "1984" by George Orwell, right? Give me a break.
Yes, that's my logic precisely. All non-fiction is better than fiction .
I'll do the same: Twilight vs. A Brief History of Time. Which can you learn more from? Apparently by your twisted logic and cherry-picking, Twilight. Have fun with that.
Are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing? Not shocking, for the same reason that it wasn't surprising to see the top comment on a "best books I've read list" attacking the nuances of a single, throwaway line in the text, irrelevant to the actual content of the article. This community loves that. I guess it makes people feel smart.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
"This is a very common viewpoint among technical people, sadly" Really? The usual image is that techie geek types lap up scifi and fantasy, which when done properly are all about the human condition.
I would say that all great books (fiction or nonfiction) are bout th human on diction.
It should read:
I would say that all great books (fiction or nonfiction) are about the human condition.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#137"But I read mostly nonfiction because I always want to learn more about how the world works." Boy oh boy, if I had a quarter every time I heard that probably I could get a tall Starbucks latte. Many, many people are under the assumption that fiction is stuff that somebody made up and hence useless while non-fiction gives you information about the world; so if you're a busy person, read non-fiction (it's of, course de…
Tell me two books that'll teach me so much. Please.
You might not have heard of some of her other novels. One such book, "Pavilion of Women", is almost life changing. It is subtle. It has an unmatched understanding and portrayal of human nature. Everyone I know who's read it has been affected by it.
I can't recommend "Pavilion of Women" enough - it was a magical experience to read it.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#138I see he mentioned Catcher in the Rye . I read it after hearing so many people say how it was such an influential book for them. John Lennon was even killed by a guy supposedly inspired by this book, and it's been often banned (some of the scenes might be unsuitable for a conservative school, I suppose). Can any technical-types here explain if they found it particularly impressive? It's well written but I didn't thin…
I am in the same boat as you. People who love it are crazy about it. I started it on a plane flight and the guy next to me chatted my ear off about how it changed his life for 20 mins. My current theory is that if you read it in your childhood, it resonates with you. I was 25 when I read it and it did not.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#139Shame this thread is dominated by that single sentence on nonfiction. Some books I enjoyed this year: * The Player of Games - http://amzn.com/0316005401 * A Guide to Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy - http://amzn.com/B0040JHNQG * The Emperors Handbook - http://amzn.com/0743233832 * The Price of Inequality: How Today's Divided Society Endangers Our Future - http://amzn.com/0393088693 * Decisive: How to Make Bet…
On subject, I really enjoyed The Emperor's Handbook, and would definitely recommend it.
Re: The Best Books I Read in 2013
#140I'd just like to add my annual joke that Gates really should get an Amazon affilliate account or he's never going to make any money.
I think it would be interesting to see if he did get an affiliate account, and specified all of the aff money would be donated to a charity, how much cash would it raise? A nice way to siphon Amazon's profits into charity...