Taking PHP Seriously [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#131

Post by Killswitch » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 4:51 PM UTC

dham wrote: post #129

Corrado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is fair to contrast PHP with RoR or Django, because it was built specifically for generating HTML. Ruby and Python are general purpose languages that do many more things than generate web pages. No one writes iOS apps in PHP but they do in RubyMotion. No one writes high performance Math routines in PHP but they do in Python.

This is my biggest gripe. PHP just does one thing. You can't really use it for much more then building web pages. Yes, you can use it for scripting but Ruby and Python are much better at this. You have things like Rubymotion(to build iOS and Mac apps), which I'm really liking. Opal which translates Ruby to Javascript. You can build Android apps with Ruboto. You can run Ruby the JVM and call Java libraries. You can ru…

> Most other PHP frameworks just copy Rails, so why not just use the source.

I can't speak for anyone else but for myself regarding this but here we go. I have 12 years experience with PHP, it's my primary language, I know it's got pros and cons, I accept it for what it is and work around it. I know Python is better in terms of standards in languages. I know PHP started out as just a few tools and morphed into a language. But here's what's keeping me from switching to Python or Ruby, or heck even Node.js.. Experience...

Yes I can learn a new language basics pretty easily, but am I gonna be able to write a complete app in say RoR with very few google searches or even looking at the manual as fast as I can in PHP? No... I have been playing around with node.js for 2 years now, long enough to know it pretty well, and yet I can still code circles around node.js with PHP.. 12 years using this language as a primary, it'd take me at LEAST 4 years to even get close to the scale of how well I can code in PHP.

It's just not feasible for me to just up and leave PHP for something "better" based on a few cons and other peoples opinions.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#132

Post by Daishiman » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 5:10 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #55

leokun wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what ways is PHP less hassle than Python? I don't understand this argument.

Abstract classes in Python are kinda bolted on http://docs.python.org/2/library/abc.html They're native to PHP http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.abstract.php

Abstract classes are unnecessary and "unpythonic", if you will; there's a lot of other preferred patterns in Python for that use case.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#133

Post by duskwuff » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 5:44 PM UTC

theOnliest wrote: post #121

duskwuff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be using PDO these days. Whether they are is another matter. :(

I work in a large educational institution, using PHP and MS SQL Server, and I can't convince the sysadmins to install PDO because the SQL Server PDO bindings have a big red EXPERIMENTAL sign on the page ( http://php.net/manual/en/ref.pdo-dblib.php ). So I'm stuck using 'mssql_' functions, I'm afraid.

I'd suggest that a bigger problem with your situation is that you're trying to use MSSQL with PHP...

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#134

Post by dancecodes » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

dont see any PHP Seriously.

Its just baby garden. Im sorry.

PHP will be Seriously if will use major Erlang features: processes, pattern matching, atoms, lists, tuples

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#135

Post by dancecodes » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

PHP must be more functional and use concepts of Functional Programming but without lost current features.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#136

Post by justinhj » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #125

justinhj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP may have a bunch of ways to shoot yourself in the foot, but you get a new foot back right away. IMHO the oddities in PHP rarely hit you, and when they do you'll pick it up right away in PHPUnit, fix it, and walk away.

Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear, but the professional using PHP was the one walking away. =)

Yes I think I misunderstood, thanks for correcting.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#137

Post by tmister » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:40 PM UTC

theOnliest wrote: post #121

duskwuff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be using PDO these days. Whether they are is another matter. :(

I work in a large educational institution, using PHP and MS SQL Server, and I can't convince the sysadmins to install PDO because the SQL Server PDO bindings have a big red EXPERIMENTAL sign on the page ( http://php.net/manual/en/ref.pdo-dblib.php ). So I'm stuck using 'mssql_' functions, I'm afraid.

You can try the driver released from Microsoft http://sqlsrvphp.codeplex.com/. Haven't tried it myself though.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#138

Post by krapp » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

dham wrote: post #129

Corrado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is fair to contrast PHP with RoR or Django, because it was built specifically for generating HTML. Ruby and Python are general purpose languages that do many more things than generate web pages. No one writes iOS apps in PHP but they do in RubyMotion. No one writes high performance Math routines in PHP but they do in Python.

This is my biggest gripe. PHP just does one thing. You can't really use it for much more then building web pages. Yes, you can use it for scripting but Ruby and Python are much better at this. You have things like Rubymotion(to build iOS and Mac apps), which I'm really liking. Opal which translates Ruby to Javascript. You can build Android apps with Ruboto. You can run Ruby the JVM and call Java libraries. You can ru…

PHP is only meant to do that one thing. It's not really fair to gripe about it not serving a purpose it was never meant to serve.

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#139

Post by krapp » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:56 PM UTC

dancecodes wrote: post #134

dont see any PHP Seriously. Its just baby garden. Im sorry. PHP will be Seriously if will use major Erlang features: processes, pattern matching, atoms, lists, tuples

So what you're saying is... the language that's holding about 80% of the web together isn't worth taking seriously... because it isn't Erlang? Remind me how many sites are built in Erlang again? Why would lists and tuples be critical in generating html files?

Re: Taking PHP Seriously [pdf]

#140

Post by pearjuice » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 7:59 PM UTC

Gigablah wrote: post #109

pearjuice wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CodeIgniter Abandon ship immediately.

CodeIgniter is still okay. Smarty, on the other hand...

Still okay? Sure, if you like frameworks with no future at all, hacked together architecture, legacy PHP 4 code nested so deep there should be a total rewrite to remove all of it and a community which is as kindergarten as it gets.